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Need 4x4 help


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23 replies to this topic

#1 pablo83

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:29 PM

I recently bought a '92 Loyale wagon, auto tranny.  It is FWD with selectable 4WD, but the 4WD doesn't work.  The dash light tells me it's engaged, but the rear wheels don't get power to them.  Where do I start on troubleshooting?



#2 Frankinsubi

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:34 PM

I would start with vacume lines.

#3 SmashedGlass

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:21 AM

I would start by checking if a fuse has been inserted in the fuse holder near the wiper motor, under the hood. A fuse is inserted here to disable the 4wd (mainly for purposes of being towed) so if there is a fuse there, remove it. Cover on the holder should be marked with 'FWD'.  



#4 pablo83

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:54 PM

I would start by checking if a fuse has been inserted in the fuse holder near the wiper motor, under the hood. A fuse is inserted here to disable the 4wd (mainly for purposes of being towed) so if there is a fuse there, remove it. Cover on the holder should be marked with 'FWD'.  

 

Thanks for the info, but I'm not finding the fuse box.  Can you point it out?

 

9135660521_72c20b4fe0_c.jpg


Edited by pablo83, 25 June 2013 - 01:54 PM.


#5 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:21 PM

If it's anything like the legacies that do this, it would be by the passenger side. Legacies didn't have these in the fuse box, they were just a single fuse holder over in front of the fire wall on the passenger side - usually labeled 2wd.

 

I didn't think that a loyale ever had this option.


Edited by AdventureSubaru, 25 June 2013 - 02:23 PM.


#6 SmashedGlass

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:28 PM

I was going by my Haynes manual for the 80-94 1800's. It says "before towing 1988 and later models equipped with an automatic transaxle, (blah blah blah)" and tells you to do what I said earlier. The illustration (not picture) shows the area in the picture Pablo posted.... 
 
So, all I can say is check around the engine bay near to the towers and firewall and see if you can hunt it down. Unless someone who owns an auto 4wd Loyale can chime in with better knowledge.

Edited by SmashedGlass, 25 June 2013 - 04:29 PM.


#7 el_freddo

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:16 PM

I believe the autos use a sort of clutch pack arrangement to engage 4wd.  If these are worn out you won't get any drive to the rear end.  How ever if you get one that's never been used offroad they're pretty bloody tight when engaged in 4wd!

 

As for the wiring, make sure everything on gearbox is connected and undamaged - one broken wire and the system won't work as I'm sure it's all electrical even with these old non TCU operated autos.

 

Cheers

Bennie



#8 AKghandi

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:38 PM

you know, the vacuum solenoids  are usually behind the drivers strut top.. but I don't see them in the pic/

 

 

also in that pic i see the green connectors are plugged together.. unplug those. they are not suposed to be plugged together normally. they are used for setting the timing.

 

 

The green and white connectors in that pic should not be plugged together. ones for setting the timing and the other is for clearing codes.


Edited by AKghandi, 25 June 2013 - 05:42 PM.


#9 rdweninger

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:52 PM

Good eye Akghandi. Looks like some cherry pits or pine cones also in the pic.
SET SOME RAT TRAPS. The varmits will eat your wires.

#10 AKghandi

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:03 PM

this is what the vacuum soleniods look like, on a push button 5 speed anyways, as i recall they are the same on an auto with 4x4...

 

 

se9j.jpg

 

 

and this is where and what the 2wd fuse is

k9ib.jpg

 

 

I dont have the fuse inplace because i have a D/R now and my 4x4 is lever operated.

 

 

 

 

Its possible you don't have a 4x4 trans but instead a fulltime awd trans, and the button might be the Manual button. which explains the lack of vacuum soleniods.. we need more pictures, like one of the entire engine bay and the outside, the emblems and such, and one of the shifter. this will help us figure his out.


Edited by AKghandi, 25 June 2013 - 06:09 PM.


#11 pablo83

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:17 AM

9142039021_6f30861c92_z.jpg

 

9142038837_faa2725148.jpg

 

9144267140_3fe1c2172a.jpg

 

9144267008_9ec8f426e6_c.jpg

 

9144266692_7e73842c9a_c.jpg

 

9144266450_8d7cca3dcd_c.jpg



#12 pablo83

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:38 AM

you know, the vacuum solenoids  are usually behind the drivers strut top.. but I don't see them in the pic/

 

 

also in that pic i see the green connectors are plugged together.. unplug those. they are not suposed to be plugged together normally. they are used for setting the timing.

 

 

The green and white connectors in that pic should not be plugged together. ones for setting the timing and the other is for clearing codes.

 

Thanks, I'll unplug those wires.



#13 pablo83

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:39 AM

Good eye Akghandi. Looks like some cherry pits or pine cones also in the pic.
SET SOME RAT TRAPS. The varmits will eat your wires.

 

Those are rocks in the driveway.



#14 pablo83

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:50 AM

this is what the vacuum soleniods look like, on a push button 5 speed anyways, as i recall they are the same on an auto with 4x4...

 

 

se9j.jpg

 

 

and this is where and what the 2wd fuse is

k9ib.jpg

 

 

I dont have the fuse inplace because i have a D/R now and my 4x4 is lever operated.

 

 

 

 

Its possible you don't have a 4x4 trans but instead a fulltime awd trans, and the button might be the Manual button. which explains the lack of vacuum soleniods.. we need more pictures, like one of the entire engine bay and the outside, the emblems and such, and one of the shifter. this will help us figure his out.

 

I think that's it, Ghandi!  Here's mine:

 

9144265992_fe4ec61737_z.jpg

 

I'll pull it out and go do some 4 wheelin.  Thanks again, Ghandi.



#15 ivans imports

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:12 AM

auto scary check actuation of the 4x4 soiliniod should push your finger away when turned on the little brass plunger make shure it isent bent or sticking have seen a few failed. Think thats the ac fuse wrong direction also check for bad rear axle. That trans is the only one that dosent have a 4x4 senser on trans the light is turned on by the switch not by trans phisicaly going into 4x4 so it may say 4x4 on dash but switch nevr moved on trans have fought this before



#16 pablo83

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:09 PM

I took it out to some local trails.  4WD is definitely working now.  I tried to park it on a steep slope for a picture, but the parking brake is useless.  What's with the front wheel parking brake?

 

Anyway, thanks for all the help.  That's by far the cheapest 4x4 repair I've ever done.  Now on to the next issue:

 

9144266226_0828c328d5_c.jpg



#17 SmashedGlass

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:21 PM

I could also swear that fuse (in the pic) was actually the a/c fuse..... Scratching my head on this one. But you got it working anyhow.


Edited by SmashedGlass, 26 June 2013 - 12:21 PM.


#18 AKghandi

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:51 PM

glad you got it figured out.. i still see the white connector plugged together, though i'm sure you unplugged it after that picture.. as far as the ebrake, stomp the brakes once then yank the ebrake, then yank the ebrake and stomp the brakes.then hold the ebrake and pump the brakes then vice versa. this will adjust the ratchet mechanism that keeps the ebrake tight.. its not an exact science but youll get it if you mess with it.. i have found on the autos the ebrake gets out of adjustment because no one uses it. hope that helps.



#19 pablo83

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:09 PM

glad you got it figured out.. i still see the white connector plugged together, though i'm sure you unplugged it after that picture.. as far as the ebrake, stomp the brakes once then yank the ebrake, then yank the ebrake and stomp the brakes.then hold the ebrake and pump the brakes then vice versa. this will adjust the ratchet mechanism that keeps the ebrake tight.. its not an exact science but youll get it if you mess with it.. i have found on the autos the ebrake gets out of adjustment because no one uses it. hope that helps.

 

Yes, I unplugged the white connector.  I'm guessing someone looked in this engine bay and saw the unplugged wires and missing fuse and thought they needed to "fix" all of that stuff.

 

For the e-brake, it locks the front wheels just fine, but when I'm pointed uphill on a real steep slope on dirt, the car will slide down even with the front wheels locked.  I know this isn't a real smart place to park a car, I just wanted a picture.  I also occasionally want to do an E-brake turn, but I guess that won't be happening with this car.



#20 AKghandi

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:53 PM

Yes, I unplugged the white connector.  I'm guessing someone looked in this engine bay and saw the unplugged wires and missing fuse and thought they needed to "fix" all of that stuff.

 

For the e-brake, it locks the front wheels just fine, but when I'm pointed uphill on a real steep slope on dirt, the car will slide down even with the front wheels locked.  I know this isn't a real smart place to park a car, I just wanted a picture.  I also occasionally want to do an E-brake turn, but I guess that won't be happening with this car.

if it was in 4x4 when you did that then it should have locked all 4 wheels. as the 4x4 on these solidly connectes the front ans rear wheels.



#21 pablo83

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:10 PM

if it was in 4x4 when you did that then it should have locked all 4 wheels. as the 4x4 on these solidly connectes the front ans rear wheels.

Good point.  But when you turn off the car does the 4WD disengage?

 

I tried driving up a steep slope on a jeep trail (probably 30-40% grade).  The wheels started spinning I stopped and put on the e-brake.  when I lifted my foot off the brake pedal the car started sliding backwards with the front wheels locked.

 

I'll have to go check that again.



#22 MilesFox

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:02 PM

I second checking for a broken rear axle if the 4wd seems to act intermittently.



#23 MR_Loyale

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:43 PM

I could also swear that fuse (in the pic) was actually the a/c fuse..... Scratching my head on this one. But you got it working anyhow.

 

Me too.



#24 Gloyale

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 09:02 PM

That is not the FWD fuse.....that would be in a turbo Loyale only, which they didn't have in 92.

 

That is the A/C fuse.

 

The 3at also is hydraulically actuated by a solenoid in the trans at the rear.  No vaccum solenoids or cable actuated lever.  If it doesn't work it's either a bad solenoid/circuit or a pressure and clutchpack issue in the trans.

 

Whatever was wrong with your 4wd was not fixed by removing that fuse.

 

Disconnect the Green connector as well as the white ones.

 

Check out the rear axles.  And make sure the rear axles nuts and wheel bearings are good and tight.  If the axle spins in the hub it's just the same as a busted axle, no drive unless you got a welded diff.


Edited by Gloyale, 29 June 2013 - 09:08 PM.





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