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Body lift vs Suspension lift


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30 replies to this topic

#1 swisscheese

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 09:20 AM

I have seen some lifted soobs described as having "X" inches body lift and "Y" inches suspension lift. (ex. 4" body, 2" suspension) How much suspension lift is practical before CV joint angles become too extreme? And am I right to assume that the suspension lift is accomplished by moving the strut mounts down the extra amount? (ex. if I do a 4" body lift and 2" susp lift, I move the 4 strut mounts down 6")

#2 VaporTrail

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 10:32 AM

the soob lifts are really a hybrid lift anyway since it's a unibody. the "body lift" like the BYB lifts from http://www.ozified.com place a block between all the running gear/suspension/steering mount points to the unibody. if all blocks are kept the same the axle angles remain the same

engine crossmember
front strut tops (suspension lift with same ride quality)
tranny crossmember radius rod plates
steering linkage
rear torsion bar mount/rear strut mount (suspension lift with same ride quality)
rear diff hanger

you can also get "suspension lift" by adding stiffer springs to the front or rear struts, or moving the torsion bar arm one tooth. these will provide a stiffer ride with the increased height, and will affect the CV angles. about 2" is the max susp lift, but you will be wearing out/replacing axles often. Even at 1" in the front, it puts a lot more wear on the CV's.

#3 MorganM

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 11:05 AM

Go with a body lift. Its already easy to blow up CVs and stubs with just a body lift and big tires.

#4 swisscheese

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 11:25 AM

Thanks, I will just go with body lift only. Another question: on my 88 wagon, there is no room to enlarge (cut out) the front of the rear fender without having to re-engineer the back door opening. But there is plenty of room to cut out the back of the fender. Has anyone done what I am contemplating--at the same time as lifting, I could move the entire rear suspension and diff back 3-4" to gain clearance while minimizing the amount of lift required. Of course this would require lengthening the driveshaft, and possibly moving the gas tank back a couple inches. Any thoughts? I want it to look like this:

Posted Image

#5 mudrat79

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 12:07 PM

With a 4inch Lift you can stuff 28 inch tires into your wells without any or very little trimming.........You will trim the fronts for turning radius, but it will all be at the front of the fender well......if you use Pug wheels it is very cut and Dry.....

Have fun......Good looking Wagon......:)

John

#6 MorganM

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 12:14 PM

Way too much work to move the rear main subframe back. I know it looks close but its not that bad. You can indeed trim the front half of the rear fenders w/o altering the door or how it functions. Open the door up and look at the fender there. You can see where the rubber seal on the door meets a flush surface on the fender/door jam. You can trim from the outside edge of that surface (leaving the door to seal properly when shut) and give yourself an inch or 2 right there.

That is all I needed to do in the rear to make 30x9.5 tires fit back there on a 3" BYB lift and 15" steel pugs. The door is not cut and looks pefectly stock when you close the door. If you want I can take some really crappy digital photos of what I did there cuz mine is an '88 also :)

A 3" BYB lift and 29" or 30" tires... youll look BETTER than that photoshop chop! :drunk:

#7 swisscheese

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 12:51 PM

With 30" tires does your EA82 have the power to safely merge onto an on-ramp etc? I have everything I need, 2x4 steel, Grade 8 bolts, steering shaft extension stuff, 16x7 chevy wheels, prolly go with 28" tires, spare hubs ready to be drilled out to 6 lug, brake line for extending, etc. but I am holding off on doing it until I can upgrade to a turbo motor. I am worried about the lack of power. But if it has adequate power now with the spfi EA82 I may start right away.:brow:

#8 bushbasher

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 01:08 PM

Do you have a dual range 5spd? With 28" tires power was acceptable, still safe on my turbowagon. I actually think that with the auto tranny, 3.7:1 gears, and the lack of low end torque from the turbo motor would make it worse than an spfi wagon with a 5spd.

#9 swisscheese

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 02:18 PM

Mine's got the 5spd manual with the Dual Range transfer case. Final drive is 3.9:1. I think that this year (88) came with a 1.6:1 TC ratio, so in low range 28's should be just fine for light off-roading needed to get me to my secluded fishin' holes :drunk: I suppose as long as I am not trying to go over any mountain passes pulling a trailer, the EA82 will get me there. I put on a cherry bomb Turbo 2 muffler w/2" ID last night, it is sweet it fits in the stock location way better than the stock muffler did, it is a good 2" above the gas tank. Next steps--K&N cone filter in homemade cold air box, fab a new less restrictive Y-pipe, I am thinking 1.75" primaries into 1. 875" collector (gotta be thinking low-end torque), skip 2nd cat, new coil. when I have my new shop built, then I will have the room to start thinking about putting in a JDM EJ20G turbo mated to my current tranny.:burnout:

#10 bushbasher

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 03:50 PM

Sounds good to me. I'm sure a lift and 28's will get you were you need to go. An lsd rear diff would make a huge difference as well if you can get a hold of one. or if you don't mind getting under your car to remove an axle when going to and from the trail, you could weld the rear diff up.

#11 MorganM

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Posted 02 September 2004 - 05:14 PM

There is plenty of pep in the EA82 SPFI to move 30"s. Right now I have 29"s on as the 30"s were very worn out. I don't use 5th gear much but getting onto the highway and maintaining speed with traffic is not a problem. Is it damn slow? You bet; but I can still spin the tires :D Once you get in 4WD Lo power is not an issue. Plenty of torque to the wheels :)

Turbo would be nice but I wouldnt hold off your project on it. Sounds like you got the stuff to get it lifted and rolling. I'd do it sooner rather than later!

How much back spacing is on those chevy rims? I'm still hunting for some rims with less back spacing so I can go with a wider tire.

Thanks!

#12 swisscheese

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 09:28 AM

I'll measure them for you this weekend and let you know.

#13 MorganM

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 10:30 AM

I'll measure them for you this weekend and let you know.


That would be awsome, thanks.

Also what year/make/model did they come off of?

#14 swisscheese

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 01:52 PM

Here is what the ebay seller said: "These are off of a 2002 Chevy Z-71, but I think they look great on all late model GM P/u's, Tahoe's, Suburbans, and Yukons. I think these wheels will fit: 92-03 Chevy/GMC Z-71 and 4x4 and 99-04 Chevy/GMC Fullsize 2wd P/U and SUV" I personally see them everywhere on late model GM pickups, I saw several stacks at the Truck JY last week. that is prolly why I got them so cheap. They are 16 x 7, backspacing to follow. BTW, the center hub hole is too small to fit the stock soob hubs, I will need to lathe off part of the wheel centering nubs on the hub.

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#15 MorganM

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 01:55 PM

Lathe out the center huh... I have no lathe hehehehe

Thanks for the info however.

#16 swisscheese

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 01:59 PM

but i think with just a grinder one could grind down the hub's nubs flat, and allow the lugs/studs to center the wheels. I may end up doing that, much faster and easier than setting up on a lathe 4 times.

#17 MorganM

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 02:02 PM

but i think with just a grinder one could grind down the hub's nubs flat, and allow the lugs/studs to center the wheels. I may end up doing that, much faster and easier than setting up on a lathe 4 times.

a grinder eh; ya I got one of those! :)

let us know how it goes :drunk:

hey is that bolt pattern 6x5.5" ?

#18 swisscheese

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 02:14 PM

Yes--6 by 5.5"

#19 theDirtyRue

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 03:26 PM

or if you don't mind getting under your car to remove an axle when going to and from the trail, you could weld the rear diff up.


Okay, I never really understood this. When you weld the rear diff up, you just have to take the axles off when going off the trail right? Why?

Sorry, I'm trying to figure out what I want to do this winter...

Thanks,

#20 MorganM

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 03:49 PM

Okay, I never really understood this. When you weld the rear diff up, you just have to take the axles off when going off the trail right? Why?

Sorry, I'm trying to figure out what I want to do this winter...

Thanks,

You unhook one axle from the diff so that your drive train wont bind up and you wont risk braking something. What you are welding together is your drivetrains ability to allow one wheel to spin faster than another in a turn. If you look at how a car turns the inside wheel spins at a faster rate than the outside wheel as you make an arch. You sacrifice this ability for the purpose of forcing both tires to spin at the same time. That way when you are offroading and one tire starts to slip; the other one will HOPEFULLY force you through. With out the locked rear end the spinning wheel would just spin and you'd be stuck!

Some people dont bother unhooking an axle since they are aware of this behavior and take precautions when turning to avoid too much stress. Upto you really if you want to do that.

Personally I cant wait to get my hands on an extra rear diff and weld it up. Got some other things to take care of first but this is definatly high on my list of Must Do Offroad MODS! I'll mostly run around with one DOJ unhooked since with my luck I would break an axle the first corner I take too fast =P

#21 Diesel

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 03:59 PM

For turning corners. The outside wheel travels farther than the inside wheel. Had a Mustang like this but we jus ran it with the tires squaking on the corners. We were such dorks.

#22 carfreak85

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 05:30 PM

Yeah, the outside wheel turns faster.

#23 bushbasher

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 05:45 PM

Well, when you drive on the pavement with a welded diff, situations were the vehicle is turning and under acceleration, but the wheels have more or less equal weight on them, are the worst situations. For example turning sharp and accelerating hard on hot sticky parking lot pavement is pretty much the worst thing you can do. But hitting a hard corner so that the vehicle leans and takes weight off the inside tire is not as bad.

A welded or locked diff is the single biggest improvement to off-road performance for a subaru. I think the difference is bigger than going from 21" road tires to 28" mud terrains. Mostly because subarus have no flex, so the wheels are off the ground all the time, making open diffs useless. Airing down is another huge improvement.

#24 subarubrat

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Posted 03 September 2004 - 07:31 PM

To run a suspension lift you have to WANT it and be prepared to deal with the increased maintenance. If you can accept overhauling the CVs, bearings and brakes at each 10,000~20,000 interval then do it. But many people turn into whinny rump roast's as soon as it impacts stock maintenance intervals or effort levels. You can have a 2 inch suspension lift but you have to be prepared for the fabrication to do it right, and the cost/time/effort of increased maintenance.

#25 theDirtyRue

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Posted 04 September 2004 - 02:59 PM

So how hard is it to get up under there and remove/install the axle everytime you go offroading. I KNOW for a fact that if I welded it up and left one in I'd break it immediately. How long does it take too?

Thanks again and sorry for the hijack,




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