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24 replies to this topic

#1 Seahag1978

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 08:48 PM

The Good:
My '78 Brat started this morning in -2 degree weather... I had to babysit it for the first 10 minutes and then it stayed running while I went back into the house to defrost myself for Round 2.

The Bad:
After 1/2 hour of idling and 3.5 miles of driving, the temp gauge only rose to halfway between cold and the lower normal range mark. The defrost is only putting out barely lukewarm air. It has a new T-stat. Well, to add insult to injury, the driver's side vent is blowing cold outside air into the cabin.

The Ugly:
I took it in for a tune-up today and it's running worse than when I put it in... arrrgggh! I was afraid that would happen.

Mission Impossible:
Trying to find a mechanic. The guys that have worked on Brats way back in the day, refuse to work on them, and the ones that will, don't know what they're doing! It's very frustrating! Back in again tomorrow :(

#2 archemitis

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 09:20 PM

might you have less than adequate antifreeze in the car? a frozen heater core is hard to thaw out.

#3 Seahag1978

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 09:28 PM

might you have less than adequate antifreeze in the car? a frozen heater core is hard to thaw out.



A couple of weeks ago we found that it had 100% anti-freeze in it... replaced some of it with water... still more than adequate.... flushed the heater core too. Seems the water in the whole system never gets really hot?

#4 NV Zeno

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 09:30 PM

Is the T-stat Genuine Subaru? Same general thing happened to me a couple of years ago, new non-soob tstat and all. In a panic, I took it to my local Ford/Sube dealer. They replaced the t-stat with a new genuine Soob part, voila:) .

#5 torxxx

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 10:42 PM

I disagree with the having to be a OEM subaru. I'm running a Chevy 350, 205 degree 54 mm thermostat, with no jiggle pin, and I've actually had LESS problems with overheating and what-not since the chevy thermo went in.

As long as its 54 mm, and it works, it will work on a sooby

#6 archemitis

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 10:53 PM

I disagree with the having to be a OEM subaru. I'm running a Chevy 350, 205 degree 54 mm thermostat, with no jiggle pin, and I've actually had LESS problems with overheating and what-not since the chevy thermo went in.

As long as its 54 mm, and it works, it will work on a sooby


i agree

#7 Hondasucks

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 10:57 PM

Mary, try covering half of your radiator with a sheet of cardboard (Beer boxes work good), this will choke the airflow through the radiator, which will cause the car to run warmer (which, in your case, will make it run at normal temps) in cold weather. Common practice on diesels (And gas engines in cold climates).... IF it runs too hot, cut off 1-2" of the cardboard and try again, if too cold, add more cardboard. Just don't forget to take it out when the weather warms up! Another thing, if you have an engine driven fan, take it out.

#8 Ross

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 11:01 PM

Is the entire system staying this cold? if so, it must be a t'stat prob???? Can't think of any other explanation, unless your engine has decided to disobey carnot's principle!

#9 Ross

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 11:03 PM

Mary, try covering half of your radiator with a sheet of cardboard (Beer boxes work good), this will choke the airflow through the radiator, which will cause the car to run warmer (which, in your case, will make it run at normal temps) in cold weather. Common practice on diesels (And gas engines in cold climates).... IF it runs too hot, cut off 1-2" of the cardboard and try again, if too cold, add more cardboard. Just don't forget to take it out when the weather warms up! Another thing, if you have an engine driven fan, take it out.


Why should you need to do this? If the engine isn't up to temp, no water should be flowing through the radiator anyway, as the t'stat should be closed.

#10 TomRhere

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 05:22 AM

New T-stat's can, and do, fail...

Some will stick in the closed position, some in the open position. If stuck open, it'll take eons to get engine up to proper temps. Which sounds like the problem here...........

#11 NorthWet

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 05:32 AM

I've had really bad luck with Stant t-stats over the last 10-15 years. Some have quit working right (open too early or stay kind of open all of the time) after 2-3 months, some after a week. Pull them out and they look OK, test OK in hot water, but don't work in car.

Was that Chevy t-stat from the dealer? Might make a difference over CSK/Autozone/NAPA stuff.

My vote is for t-stat.

Doesn't need to violate Carnot... the engine itself has a lot of ability to shed heat. Several engines are more oil-cooled than water-cooled, and most of them just disipate through oil-pan.

#12 Bucky92

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 05:56 AM

Mary,


I hope you get everything worked out. Also wish you could get the Brat down here for the next gathering of the First Subaru Church of the Reserection. Maybe we all could help get the bugs worked out. Don't feel bad ...I have the mystery coolant leak..its not bad but just annoying(have to top off the radiator every month or so...havent used a whole bottle of anti-freeze in the entire time I have owned the car yet). When it is cold out my tremp gueage barely gets off the cold mark but I do get some heat....I dont think its as hot as it should be but it isnt bad..plus I have that huge interior space to try and warm up being Bucky is a wagon.
Do the Gen 1s have the fresh air gate controls on the outer vents like my Loyale,GL and Justy had?You know what I mean?? Your one gate could be stuck open or the control broke and thats why its only pulling in cold outside air. Just a thought....dont know anything about Gen 1s.

#13 Caboobaroo

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 09:37 AM

Bring it to me, I'll fix it:D

#14 All_talk

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 10:23 AM

The cardboard over the radiator may work even if the T-stat is closed, as it will block airflow through the engine compartment. I know from experience that a Subie engine (EA-82 anyway) needs very little radiator in cold weather, the airflow over the engine does a lot of cooling. Last winter my ’87 wagon ran fine with an almost completely plugged radiator, which I only noticed as the temps warmed up in the spring, all but about 6 rows (4 top, 2 bottom) were dead cold. In fact I’m nursing a semi-plugged rad in my RX right now, in the mornings (28-35F) it does fine. On the ride home in the afternoon (40-50F) it heats up pulling the pass, cranking up the heat and cracking a window keeps it in the normal range.

Gary

#15 torxxx

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 12:06 PM

All-talk is right about the carboard over the raid. It does work with the thermo closed. The 205 degree one that I'm running, never opens during the winter.
take the cardboard out, car is colder the #^&*. Cover the ENTIRE raid ( a 12 pack beer box works perfect, just the right size), car heats up like normal. I leave the cardboard in until about 25 F above zero..

Then if the car does get warm, the aux fan will suck some air through the raid, even though its covered.

#16 Ross

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 12:16 AM

Does anyone know if there is a difference in the cooling system between US cars and the ones here in new zealand (and australia)? If there isn't, the cardboard shouldnt be necissary, cos iv'e run my ea81 in -15 - -20 celsius (around 0 fahrenheit) and the only probs i had were with the battery and gearbox.

#17 Seahag1978

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 08:01 AM

I had little knowledge about the truck when I got it, so it's like playing hide 'n seek.

In Spring and Summer the temp gauge never came off the bottom, so we thought the temp gauge was broken. The auxilliary fan has a switch hard wired to the dash, so not knowing the engine temp, I ran the auxilliary fan full-time, better safe than sorry, kinda thing.

Judging from what we're finding, there was a paranoia about overheating. 100% anti-freeze, low temp t-stat and hard wired auxiliary fan.

Is beer cardboard interchangable?
I don't have to use Japanese beer cardboard do I?
(I don't like the food, I KNOW I won't like the beer.)

I hope this specimen will tolerate BudLite beer cardboard. If not, I'll have to make a "parts run" to the liquor store, the lines to the cashier are brutal this time of year!

#18 Seahag1978

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:04 PM

Bring it to me, I'll fix it:D


I wish I could... I'd be a popsicle before I left my zip code!

#19 Seahag1978

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:07 PM

Mary,


I hope you get everything worked out. Also wish you could get the Brat down here for the next gathering of the First Subaru Church of the Reserection. Maybe we all could help get the bugs worked out. Don't feel bad ...I have the mystery coolant leak..its not bad but just annoying(have to top off the radiator every month or so...havent used a whole bottle of anti-freeze in the entire time I have owned the car yet). When it is cold out my tremp gueage barely gets off the cold mark but I do get some heat....I dont think its as hot as it should be but it isnt bad..plus I have that huge interior space to try and warm up being Bucky is a wagon.
Do the Gen 1s have the fresh air gate controls on the outer vents like my Loyale,GL and Justy had?You know what I mean?? Your one gate could be stuck open or the control broke and thats why its only pulling in cold outside air. Just a thought....dont know anything about Gen 1s.



I bet you're right Connie, I never thought of that! The new dash will probably have better ones... I'll check where they are when it stops raining.

#20 edrach

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:24 PM

As long as its 54 mm, and it works, it will work on a sooby

Sorry but I have to disagree with that comment. My Brat never ran warmer than 1/4 of the way up the guage. Not a problem since it never came close to overheating. However, we found out it was a 180 degree thermostat and when I installed the stock 195 degree thermostat the temp guage went up to just below the 1/2 way mark on the guage and I had lots of heat out the heater. Now we don't get -2 degree weather here much, but changing the thermostat worked just fine. Just my 2 cents worth.

#21 archemitis

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:25 PM

ok, i read what i could, but am still confused. you had a 180 thermostat in there?
i still had good heat with a 180, but the 195 makes the guage show half way up, opposed to 1/4 of the way up.

i just fixed my gfs xt6 that had no heat. i tested alot of stuff, untill i noticed the flapper door contorlled by the heat/cold controll. it wasnt closing all the way. almost, but in reely cold weather, it didnt put out any heat. i had to pry the door shut with a big screwdriver, as the teeth were stripped out, and didnt push the door shut.

id try for that. even runing with no thermostat at all, you get a little bit of heat.

#22 Seahag1978

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:36 PM

Sorry but I have to disagree with that comment. My Brat never ran warmer than 1/4 of the way up the guage. Not a problem since it never came close to overheating. However, we found out it was a 180 degree thermostat and when I installed the stock 195 degree thermostat the temp guage went up to just below the 1/2 way mark on the guage and I had lots of heat out the heater. Now we don't get -2 degree weather here much, but changing the thermostat worked just fine. Just my 2 cents worth.



It's a stock 192/5? t-stat... we took out the 180 and still none of the hoses are what I would consider hot. I am totally baffled.

#23 edrach

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:54 PM

i just fixed my gfs xt6 that had no heat. i tested alot of stuff, untill i noticed the flapper door contorlled by the heat/cold controll. it wasnt closing all the way. almost, but in reely cold weather, it didnt put out any heat. i had to pry the door shut with a big screwdriver, as the teeth were stripped out, and didnt push the door shut.


I'm with archemitis on this; if the valve doesn't open to let the water run through the heater core very well it could contribute to the heating problem. Altho your comments about the hoses running cool is distressing since they should get quite warm. Lastly the vents in my '84 Brat are controlled by cables; perhaps the cable to your air vent has come off the lever and isn't closing the air intake enough.

#24 SUBARU3

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 10:39 PM

The heater stopcock on the heater control unit may be frozen in the "off" or "near off" position. (The stopcock is near the gas pedal.) If the heater hoses are not hot, then I would suspect this. Almost always, the heater valve jams, but the driver keeps using the temp control on the dash. This in turn, breaks the white, plastic control lever, that connects to the heater valve and you then have more problems.

  • Check the heater valve operation,as you slide the temp lever left to right and back again. If it doesn't move, try to lube up the pivot points and move it with your fingers. If it doesn't, its either the plastic lever on the side of the heater box is broken, your valve is bad, or most likely BOTH are bad.
  • Remove the hoses from the valve and connect directly to the core. You might need some new hoses, one being a 45* angled hose, maybe two.
  • Connect a shut off valve inline in the "in" heater hose. This can be manually shut off , as needed, till you repair your valve inside the car. (Here's some options) HEATER SHUT OFF VALVE SCANT 20500/ FACTORY AIR PRODUCTS 84706/ FACTORY AIR # 74627 ( SLIDE BAR TYPE) for 68-74 ford truck (570-210/570-215)
  • The heater valve oftens pops up on eBay. The lever you WILL need I bet. It's Subaru # 674031810 $13.03 at Subaruparts.com
Mary; Feel free to call me, as I see you have a lot of concerns. I can address many issues quickly on the phone.

Todd

#25 Seahag1978

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 10:55 PM

The heater stopcock on the heater control unit may be frozen in the "off" or "near off" position. (The stopcock is near the gas pedal.) If the heater hoses are not hot, then I would suspect this. Almost always, the heater valve jams, but the driver keeps using the temp control on the dash. This in turn, breaks the white, plastic control lever, that connects to the heater valve and you then have more problems.

  • Check the heater valve operation,as you slide the temp lever left to right and back again. If it doesn't move, try to lube up the pivot points and move it with your fingers. If it doesn't, its either the plastic lever on the side of the heater box is broken, your valve is bad, or most likely BOTH are bad.
  • Remove the hoses from the valve and connect directly to the core. You might need some new hoses, one being a 45* angled hose, maybe two.
  • Connect a shut off valve inline in the "in" heater hose. This can be manually shut off , as needed, till you repair your valve inside the car. (Here's some options) HEATER SHUT OFF VALVE SCANT 20500/ FACTORY AIR PRODUCTS 84706/ FACTORY AIR # 74627 ( SLIDE BAR TYPE) for 68-74 ford truck (570-210/570-215)
  • The heater valve oftens pops up on eBay. The lever you WILL need I bet. It's Subaru # 674031810 $13.03 at Subaruparts.com
Mary; Feel free to call me, as I see you have a lot of concerns. I can address many issues quickly on the phone.

Todd



Got it! Be right at ya. Thanks!




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