42 replies to this topic

[jmickelct]

Well, I keep hoping you might be wrong Nipper.... but fear that you are right...

My 96 OBW started sounding very similar to JPXs...(several months ago) now has grown to frightening proportions..

http://media.putfile...BW-engine-knock

Am glad to hear all of your earnest efforts JPX, am still rooting for you to find a solution that doesnt mean a new engine!

[jon38iowa]

Thats a connecting rod, it doesnt tick fast enough to be a valve noise, and its too deep in the engine. There is not enough mass in the valve drive train to creat that sound, thats a very mean ugly rod knock (take from somone who threw a rod through the side of his engine)

nipper

I agree with Nipper! This, having had a very simillar sound from my 2.5 ( required a rebuild). Good luck regardless.
John

[sea#3]

The knocking sound hasn't really gone away. :-\

I need to record another round of it to compare between then and now to see what is different.

And since the valve lash adjusters are hydraulic, there is nothing to adjust other than making sure they hold firm after pumping up with oil. And they all checked out following the replacement of a single dead one.

Have you done the cylinder kill to check for rod /piston/main noises?
If that doesn't change any thing, I still think it sound like the hydraulic valve lash adjuster

Just a question, When you replaced the hydraulic valve lash adjuster did you run it and then remove the valve cover to check the adjusters? Or did you just pump them up by hand and then install them?
When you pulled the rocker shaft off did you disassemble the towers from the shaft?
The 2.2 is notorious for clogging the oil jet in the rocker shaft in the end rocker towers
(Rear on the right head /Front on the left head)
Also check the rocker itself, make sure the hole in the end of the rocker (by the hydraulic valve lash adjuster) is clear

Hope this helps

SEA#3

[bvh56]

My 1990 legacy 2.2 was doing the same thing.It would come and go and to get rid of it i would rev the engine. It was a cracked flex plate. The plate was cracked underneth the round plate were it bolts to the crankand it was smacking the engine block. After some time it completely broke all the way around causeing the convertor not to rotate.

[pearlm30]

Hi JPX
Got any update about the knocking sound?
Thanks

The knocking sound hasn't really gone away. :-\

I need to record another round of it to compare between then and now to see what is different.

And since the valve lash adjusters are hydraulic, there is nothing to adjust other than making sure they hold firm after pumping up with oil. And they all checked out following the replacement of a single dead one.

[montana105]

I've been watching this thread for awhile now and decided to add something.
When my engine gave it up I had an eerily same sounding noise from the engine compartment,kind of self diagnosed it as piston slap on # 3.Coming home from Missoula one day the car lost a bunch of power and I could see lots of dark colored smoke behind me when in the throttle,almost like a very rich situation,and the car idled very rough at all RPMs,and proceeded to turn the smoke to a bluish white tinge.It gave up the bucket,had only enough power to drive it up on the trailer. After a couple of months I was able to get a jy engine with low miles,compared to 182000 miles anyways.It started right up after a couple of cycles of the fuel pump,smoked like hell for an hour and been great since. We've been tearing the old engine apart now since,when we have time anyways,and lo and behold # 3 exhaust valve had a hole burned through it.At this time we are trying to figure this out relating to the noises I diagnosed earlier.To make it straight tothe point I'd check your compression,and wish I'd known more about pulling plug wires and the different symptoms that this can diagnose.
John

[njdrsubaru]

i just got to this thread

and i've had many 2.2 from 90 to 95 and up

and almost all of them had that noise specially with extreme weather, too cold or too hot.... never had any problems with those cars and they are all on the road as of today

all i can say its a piston slap, i always wanted to know what it was

weird aint it?

[nipper]

Thats what i thought with mine till it threw a rod right threw the side of the block. Piston slap if its not fatal will go away once the car warms up. Any noise that stays needs to be investigated.



nipper

[JPX]

Wow, I really appreciate everyone's interest in this matter.

At 144,000 miles now, the motor currently has just short of 6000 miles on it. Just finished up an oil change with nothing out of the ordinary in color.

We've been driving the car very frequently now since my Cabriolet has been in an extended surgery for a master cylinder and a wheel cylinder replacement I've be procrastinating.

On cold mornings, the knocking is louder briefly at start as the oil flow gets going. It quickly calms down a little once the engine is turning for a few seconds.

The knocking sound is very much still present. But there has been no oil loss (other than what appears to be a seep at the rear mail seal:mad: -does it ever end?) And power delivery has been consistent.

To answer some previous questions on the lash adjusters, I did pump them up and install them. Since I was in and out of the valve covers several times, I checked the HLAs each time and they were all firm. I had also made it a point to clear out the pinholes for the oil in the rocker train. So I believe that the rocker assemblies are operating correctly.

I have NOT conducted a compression check yet. I'm banking on the engine builder getting this right for now. :-\

I did try the spark plug test a while ago with no discernable change in the tone of the knock.

Other than front brake work and some investigation on the driveshaft center bearing whine, we'll just keep running with it I suppose.

[pearlm30]

Good to hear that!!! I wonder if the oil additive called engine restore(in a silver can)will help with the knocking sound. I have hear some good result.

Wow, I really appreciate everyone's interest in this matter.

At 144,000 miles now, the motor currently has just short of 6000 miles on it. Just finished up an oil change with nothing out of the ordinary in color.

We've been driving the car very frequently now since my Cabriolet has been in an extended surgery for a master cylinder and a wheel cylinder replacement I've be procrastinating.

On cold mornings, the knocking is louder briefly at start as the oil flow gets going. It quickly calms down a little once the engine is turning for a few seconds.

The knocking sound is very much still present. But there has been no oil loss (other than what appears to be a seep at the rear mail seal:mad: -does it ever end?) And power delivery has been consistent.

To answer some previous questions on the lash adjusters, I did pump them up and install them. Since I was in and out of the valve covers several times, I checked the HLAs each time and they were all firm. I had also made it a point to clear out the pinholes for the oil in the rocker train. So I believe that the rocker assemblies are operating correctly.

I have NOT conducted a compression check yet. I'm banking on the engine builder getting this right for now. :-\

I did try the spark plug test a while ago with no discernable change in the tone of the knock.

Other than front brake work and some investigation on the driveshaft center bearing whine, we'll just keep running with it I suppose.

[nipper]

Good to hear that!!! I wonder if the oil additive called engine restore(in a silver can)will help with the knocking sound. I have hear some good result.

Normally i would say that stuff is crap. But considering he has a bad rod knock, it cant make things any worse. But be ware, rod knock can terminate with a hole in the block.


nipper

[JPX]

Coming on to 145,000 miles now. Cold mornings are a still a little irritating with that sound. But the car still keeps running.

That engine may end up out of the car again at the end of the year. The rear oil seal appears to be leaking. Great time to check for a cracked flex plate I guess.

I'm quite sure the driveshaft has a bad u-joint and carrier bearing - yet another expensive project to look forward to. Need a louder stereo so I can drown out all the noises.

[nipper]

I'm quite sure the driveshaft has a bad u-joint and carrier bearing - yet another expensive project to look forward to. Need a louder stereo so I can drown out all the noises.

you dont want to drown out that noise, that one you want to get fixed. If its a bad u joint get a used shaft or have a driveshaft shoop rebuild it. That one can total the car if it lets go at the wrong time. Its giving you plenty of warnings, this is one that you really need to listen to. Someone on the old gen list ignored it and it bent his floor and put a scary hole in it.


nipper

[fixitguy50]

About a week ago, I had a flashing check engine light while cruisin down the interstate. The engine did not overhead or make any noises. When I got off the I-state & hooked up my code reader, I got no codes. A few days ago, I started hearing a knock when the car is idling at a stop. The noise went away when I began driving and came back when at a stop. I'm thinking it's a flex plate or thrust bearing since it changes with engine load. I have 226K, but have done all the service at recommended intervals. Any thoughts ? The only recent work I have done was replacing an inner tie rod which involved removing the exhaust from the heads to drop the stabilizer bar.

[Fairtax4me]

About a week ago, I had a flashing check engine light while cruisin down the interstate. The engine did not overhead or make any noises. When I got off the I-state & hooked up my code reader, I got no codes. A few days ago, I started hearing a knock when the car is idling at a stop. The noise went away when I began driving and came back when at a stop. I'm thinking it's a flex plate or thrust bearing since it changes with engine load. I have 226K, but have done all the service at recommended intervals. Any thoughts ? The only recent work I have done was replacing an inner tie rod which involved removing the exhaust from the heads to drop the stabilizer bar.

Maybe start a new thread since this one was 3 years old?

Knocking at idle may be low oil pressure. Flashing CEL could be due to a misfire or an EGR problem since it was on the highway. Or it might be your catalytic converter falling apart.

[fixitguy50]

My 99 legacy started knocking at idle a couple of days ago. Sounded like it was coming from the engine, but the frequency made me think it was from the timing belt and rollers. I also had an intermittant check engine light for about one minute with no poor driveability problems and no code. I went to check the timing belt and found the crank pulley (harmonic balancer) was loose and rubbing against the crank sprocket. Metal fragments were on the crank engine sensor. The bearing in one of the timing belt rollers had play and the belt had a line worn in the top side about 3/16 from the inner side with rubber being tranferred to a roller. I have inspected the belt every 60K and replaced when it had any wear, but this is the first time problem I've seen with a roller. I'm replacing the balancer, crank sprocket, key, {timing belt, rollers, tensioner, and water pump} (sold together on ebay), and oil pump. I've got 226K and I'm trying to make it last at least another 100K. Does anybody know if the pan has to be dropped to change the oil pump? I'll use locktite on the balancer bolt this time. Anybody seen anything like this before ?

[Fairtax4me]

Happens more often than you probably think. Plenty of write ups on what to do if the crank or keyway is damaged here on the site.

No you don't have to drop the pan to change the oil pump. It doesn't even touch the pan. Beergarage.com has a nice writeup showing how to do that, along with info on replacing the timing belt and tensioners as well.
http://beergarage.com/Subaru.aspx

[Biblios58]

Sounds like maybe a CV joint, if the sound comes from either
the left or right side of care it could be a cv joint left or right side.