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New GL10, Shooting for high 14's?


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#1 crazy_squirrels

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 07:28 PM

In august, i picked up a 89 GL10 sedan with 132k miles on it for $200. Its ugly, but i figured if it would drive itself onto the trailer, it would make a fun little play car. Always liked that generation Subaru. I fixed a few minor issures, and one not so minor, someone at some point took the impelers out of the turbo for some reason. I swapped the 4eat for a Dual range 5 speed, and have been driving it pretty reliably for 6000 miles.
So, a bit of history, last summer i traded off my TBI 350 firebird. By no means fast, but good for a best of 14.85 and average of 14.9-15.1, depending on temp and traction. I miss running it at the track, and would like to get my subaru to run similar numbers.
Ive been doing tons of reading here, And have in idea of how to go. But looking for more input.
My plans are:

Pull the engine, and re-seal, new head gaskets, ect.

Turbo back exhaust, with high flow cat, thinking 2.5"? Have to keep it emissions legal, in calfornia.

Possibly build a header/up pipe.

Intercooler, I have a audi one from another project, but there's really no good was to mount it. So a bit more wrecking yard searching for a better one.

More boost, hopefully stock turbo, But WRX ones seem pretty cheap here on craigslist.

5th injector? Im unsure on this one, ive read its a bandaid, but may be a inexpensive way to get me where i want.

And need to do some more research in possible ways to deal with fuel cut, when i reach that point.

Curious about head studs or inserts for the block. Necessary, or only when your into really high boost levels?

Any other ideas or input would be appreciated. Therse so much good info here to try and absorb!

#2 hatchsub

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 07:52 PM

Ive done my fair share of reading on here about the EA82T's and have come to the conclusion that they dont like to be moded too much. You can do a few things to them but evenually they will blow on you. There is someone on this board (forget his user name) who blew a baseball size hole in his block when his engine blew. My advice..if you want to keep that car is to get a nice EJ22T or even a newer STI motor with matching tranny. For not much more than the amount of time and money you would invest in the EA82T you could have a faster more reliable engine combo/tranny combo.

#3 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:05 PM

The EA82T's have severe limitations that prevent modding to any great extent:

1. Exhaust port near the coolant jacket is very thin. EGT must be maintained to extremely precise tollerances to prevent head cracking.

2. Head gasket design sucks. New/copper could be obtained at not-unreasonable prices but.....

3. The stock head "bolt" system is not sufficient to apply the neccesary torque to use cometic or copper gaskets etc. The cost of ARP studs or similar is outragous due to the thread size and pitch being a very strange/uncommon type.

4. To use either of these options effectively would require the block to be o-ringed. Also not cheap.

5. The head quench design limits compression - stock is only 7.7:1. Raising it will only put you into severe pre-det land.

6. 2 Valves per cylinder, and not very big at that. Poor flow.

7. Poor stock cooling system - both in terms of the glycol system, and the lack of an oil cooler, and poor oil pump performance.

In order to fix any/all of these problems would require MUCH more money than a coventional WRX swap. It's a waste of time and energy to mess with the EA82T's. They have enough problems in stock form - modifying them will only make them worse.

GD

#4 4WDFrenzy

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:26 PM

Well first off, Welcome to the USMB.:headbang:

Now, the first bit of info that you should know is that you are beginning work on a motor that came from the factory with a measly 115 bhp(@ crank). Do the (IIRC) 16.5% drivetrain loss(AWD/4WD), and well, you get the picture. Anyway, you sound like you know what direction you are going. I have found that a slight bump in boost(from stock 7psi up to 10psi) makes a considerable improvement in power. The TD04 from a WRX seems quite well suited to the EA engine and spools up close to stock from what I have read. A TB exhaust is a great start as the exhaust systems on these cars a very restrictive. Up it to 2-1/2" ID and you will again notice an improvement. Building a header isn't too difficult, if you have the right tools. Just don't go crazy with the diameter of the piping as you will be doing more harm then good. Also, adding an IC is a must. One of the best ICs that I have found is the one from a Starion/Conquest. They are very efficient in removing heat. Alot of the people on the forum run WRX and STi TMICs as it is pretty much a direct fit(after making brackets, getting correct hoses, etc.) Something else to consider is '80s model 280zx fuel injectors and a Walbro or other brand of your choice fuel pump, along with a RRFPR. You may also want to add a high flow drop-in style filter or a cone filter to intake system, or you can do as I did and custom make your own(3" fenderwell intake with Blitz style[stainless steel mesh] cone filter). As for getting rid of Fuel Cut, you can go with Megasquirt, or something to that effect. Standalones seem to be the only way to rid these things of fuel cut and still have startup and idle reliability. Who knows, you may have gotten lucky and gotten one that doesn't suffer from fuel cut. There are a few of them out there(mine isn't one of them.:( ). Well there is more that you can do, and I could make the list go on and on. But ultimately, engine reliability seems to suffer on these engines as you start making more power. So I will now leave these ideas in your hands as you are the only one who can make the decision as to what goes on or gets taken off of you car. I hope this helps.

Patrick

#5 crazy_squirrels

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:27 PM

Sure, i could go EJ swap, But thats not my style. I have a cheap beater car, I have a spare motor, And i would like to run 15 flat in the 1/4, to pick a round number. Guess i like to do things the hard, or unusual way...i have a 74 suburban with a turbo 6.2 diesel...lots of people tell me its junk...but with a 5 speed in a 6000# truck, i get 18mpg with a heavy foot pulling the grades in northern california, and 20's on the flats. And will pull overdrive up the steepest grade out here. I have a 75 international scout, definitly not common, with a 67 buick 340 V8, Chevy trans and ford axles...I ride a husaberg dirt bike, another one alot of poeple will say is junk...So yeah, EJ swap would be great, and faster....But id rather try and fail, if need be, just because i want the challenge.

#6 WoodsWagon

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:54 PM

How often do you want to run 14's? I'm thinking that upping the boost to 10psi, putting an open exhaust system on, and feeding it the bottle with extra fuel might get you what you want a few times. A bit of washer fluid spray in the intake would help bring the charge temps down.

Take some vids, and mabe get a diaper for the car so you don't oil the track.

#7 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 09:16 PM

But id rather try and fail, if need be, just because i want the challenge.


Then why ask us? If you have searched you know what the answers will be. Building turbo engines is well documented throughout the universe. You'll run into the same problems that everyone else has - you'll be frustrated at the failures, and ultimately the whole shebang will end up in a scrap yard. Take a look at my join date - don't you suppose I've seen this a few times? And beleive me - there's folks that have tried that are at least as intelligent as you seem to be - probably a few that are more so.

You asked - so that's the look into my crystal ball. Ask around after how often I'm wrong :rolleyes:

Yeah - it's a dead horse. But I beat on it anyway. When will I learn?

GD

#8 Dakota Dave

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 10:32 PM

Put the car on a sever diet. sheding as many pounds as possable will make a differance

#9 Turbone

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 10:47 PM

Then why ask us? If you have searched you know what the answers will be. Building turbo engines is well documented throughout the universe. You'll run into the same problems that everyone else has - you'll be frustrated at the failures, and ultimately the whole shebang will end up in a scrap yard. Take a look at my join date - don't you suppose I've seen this a few times? And beleive me - there's folks that have tried that are at least as intelligent as you seem to be - probably a few that are more so.

You asked - so that's the look into my crystal ball. Ask around after how often I'm wrong :rolleyes:

Yeah - it's a dead horse. But I beat on it anyway. When will I learn?

GD


Ah, but have you ever built one and driven it? ;)

Take your spare engine and go completly through it. If you have the time and $, put new bearings and rings in it. Dont have to be fnacy expensive one, stock will work. Get the heads milled, but dont over do it. Otherwise you will have to much compression and HG issues. Get the valves and guides done. Polish the intake ports if you want.
New parts are a must. Get a new WP, OP, new timing belts and tenshioners. Re-seal the complete engine.
I use a K&N drop in filter, it works great.
Upgrade the coil to a MSD.
I now run NGK Iridium plugs. Pricey, but they work.
As long as you re-seal the engine, you can run synthetic (like me).
Open the exhaust up. I have 2.5in from the DP back.
Make sure the turbo has no shaft play. It safe to boost up to 12-12psi.
If you do so, install a IC.
A TD04 is a nice upgrade but it spools up slower and the rpm's need to be higher.
My RX is putting out 130bhp. Thats 100hp to the wheels and 106tq.
I dont know if I want to drag race it, the launches are to harsh with fulltime 4wd. My tranny is the weak point now.
Do all this and be conservative with the power upgrades and you might hit the 14's.
If you dont mind changing engines like a NHRA mech, go with a SPFI block and have fun!

#10 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:00 PM

Ah, but have you ever built one and driven it? ;)


I've blown enough stock one's to know better.

You are an exception Rob - you have more patience than...... anyone I can think of at the moment.

How many times has that engine been out!?! :lol:

And all that work for 15 HP..... you and I both know you could have done an EJ22 swap several times over for what you have into the RX - especially considering your labor - and have the same HP without a turbo at all.

GD

#11 Turbone

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 08:31 AM

You have to be a boost junkie to understand :-p
Ah, the rush of forced induction :slobber:

#12 joostvdw

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 10:09 AM

too bad you guys don't live in europe, I got 136chp stock :-p (and with an open TBE it's more like 140chp)

But, back to topic, ripping out the interior and especially all the sound deadening stuff will help definately.

Engine wise, increasing exhaust diameter and putting on an IC are simple steps, after that the injection system is just not up to par (you'll run lean very quickly). Only real way of dealing with that is custom injectors and a standalone system, any other way is a bandaid, sadly, this is also the most expensive way....

Good luck and let us now how it works out for you.

#13 EvilDead

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 01:35 PM

Hell yeah man, I'd love to see ya run as fast as the one that beats the Skyline on my myspace page. :D

#14 testy

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 11:10 PM

I ran my XT turbo at 16psi daily all stock haha. Never tracked it but felt like 15ish as long as the intake stayed ontop of the motor.

A couple times pressure got so high in the intake it blew the plentiff off the motor and popped up my hood.

I didnt do any of this on purpose, the wastegate was corroded and seized up.

#15 testy

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 11:13 PM

A completely stock ej22t and gutting the car will take u around high 14s easy i bet.

#16 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 11:27 PM

A completely stock ej22t and gutting the car will take u around high 14s easy i bet.


There's folks with modded 22T's running in the high 12's. With very few mods you can put out 200 crank HP.

GD

#17 testy

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 11:41 PM

There's folks with modded 22T's running in the high 12's. With very few mods you can put out 200 crank HP.

GD


Dude, 350 at the wheels on a stock bottem end isnt hard to acheive.

start with a low mileage bottom end. Delta cams in some light ported SOHC heads. STI injectors and fuel rail. Piggy bag ECU. Turbo off an STI. A good 3" exhaust all the way through. Run yourself at like 14 psi very reliably. Ad an intercooler, nothing fancy.

The ej22T is the best motor produced by subaru imo.

#18 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 11:50 PM

I'm aware of that, yes. I said with "very few" mods. IC, increase boost a bit, and turbo-back 3" will get you to 200 without doing anything fueling wise.

My point was that for $500 in mods, you can hit a HP rating with the EJ22T that is near impossible with an EA82T. Of course you are starting with a 160 HP 2.2 vs. a 115 HP 1.8. The big difference is that the EJ22T was much more detuned than the EA82T was - out of the box.

And to use the STi injectors you need the fuel rail from a 92 - 94 N/A EJ22 ;)

GD

#19 Turbone

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 12:10 AM

Keep this up and the thread is going to end up in the New Gen Forum :rolleyes:

Keep on topic, were talking EA82T.
Nothing else, nothing less.

To build a reliable EA82T thats got some grunt to it, takes finesse.
Dont scoff either, you all know the results that alot of us have had pushing just a little to far past the limits of this engine. You have to know when to stop and be satisfied with what you have.
Trust me, that has to be the hardest thing to do.
Boost is addictive :cool:

#20 3eyedwagon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 02:01 AM

Try to trade the wagon, and get your Firebird back......:grin:

#21 4WDFrenzy

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 02:11 AM

Rob, I know what you mean. Boost is veeeeeeery Addictive!:slobber:

The EA82T isn't known for being the "ultimate sleeper" motor with reliability or anything. But like Rob said, you have to know when enough is enough. Once you start making, what I would consider decent power(and I use this term loosely) on these motors, they make the cars that they come in that much more fun to drive. But you have to admit one thing though. Even after modding an EA82T, it will still get better gas mileage than a "showroom stock" WRX(mainly because of the lack of power).:)

Crazy Squirrels, just remember, don't expect big power numbers from these motors. YES, you can mod them and YES, it does make a night and day difference. But without investing a decent amount of cash into it, I am pretty sure that any power numbers over 180chp(and I think this would seriously be pushing it in the luck and reliability department) is going to be a bit out of reach.

Happy Motoring!:burnout:

Patrick

#22 WoodsWagon

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 01:16 PM

I don't think anyone has mentioned using the spider manifold off of an XT yet, and I would think those would be good for a few HP.

#23 crazy_squirrels

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:56 PM

So, for the sake of covering all the bases, i have looked into the EJ swap as well. The voice of reason tells me for what im really going to do with the car, a N/A EJ22 would be best. But leave me wanting more power. I Figure it this way. My motor:Felpro head set, $140, Intercooler, $20ish from the wrecking yard, IC piping $ 10-50for a guess, depending on how creative i get. Exhaust, Est. $100, give or take, since i can fab myself. Throw a few more small things in there, Turn the boost up, get what, 130-140chp? Stock EJ22, Half price at picknpull, $100-150 with everything. Therse 4-6 of them to pick from in reno right now. Have a lathe, milling, cutting, and welding tools. So can make the adapter, or even buying a pre-made on, will still keep me in the same price range, and 130chp? i believe, and more reliable, better milage, and regular gas. 90% of this cars usage is getting in and out in the snow, and playing on dirt roads when i dont need or want to take my 13mpg scout on 35" tires.
But boost is soo much fun! guess its decision time! Thanks for all the good imput!

#24 Quidam

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:44 PM


Any other ideas or input would be appreciated. Therse so much good info here to try and absorb!


I have an 89 sedan. I recycle:). I'm putting together an EA 82 with used parts. EA 82T. Choice of five speed with diff lock, or five speed dual range. LSD. Front and rear sway bars. X T6 clutch. Fuel cell. Alcohol. etc etc

It will run 14, or something.

A sixty eight Cougar, 289 c.i., stock long block. four ten Zoom gears, M-50 15 Kelly Springfield, Superchargers, whew, top loader four speed, Edelbrock, headers, Holley, MSD ignition. Some other stuff. It ran fourteen six quarter mile at National trails.

The sedan is light.

Doug

#25 Major Lazy

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:56 PM

But you have to admit one thing though. Even after modding an EA82T, it will still get better gas mileage than a "showroom stock" WRX(mainly because of the lack of power).:)


hmmmm..my ea82t, hardly modded, gets 20-24
wrx gets worse than that??




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