man on the moon

Short an alignment tool last time we changed the clutch on my Loyale, we poked around the garage looking for suitable substitutes. After trying a few different things we took a spark plug from the top of the motor "for the heck of it". It worked! The size was perfect! The insulated part goes in first, and the clutch plate will fit very nicely on the angley part where the socket/wrench would go. Don't know how the circumference compares for other motors, but I would imagine it is very close and may be worth a shot if you find yourself out a clutch alignment tool.

Ok, that makes a little more sense, I guess. Not sure why I would get a code for it when the car wasn't even ON...not to mention the code list *specifically* states that "the neutral safety switch is continously in ON position" or something to that effect, unless my memory fails me. It then goes on to specify that "this switch prevents then engine from starting when the transmission is in any position except for 'park' or 'neutral'". If anything a 'neutral sensing' switch in a standard tranny should make the motor start, not keep it from starting. The injector did not fire while this code was blinking. I would imagine the same ECU runs all EA82 transmissions. At one point I was debating swapping (I didn't) in an auto, and iirc the only thing I would have to do with the ECU was ground or unground one pin...this could easily be a ghost or confusedtoheckECU code. Looking for more clarification.

So I DO have a neutral safety switch? I never knew--I thought it was only related to the shifter on the automatic! When I saw that code I did try starting it in various configurations--in gear, out of gear, with/without clutch (no clutch=nothing, which is good). After unplugging the battery the code cleared and I haven't seen it again. I haven't had a chance to put a multi-meter to any of the sensors or harnesses, but I did try to repeat the symptoms. So far there has been no pattern of warm/cold/etc. The idle is a bit rougher/lower than I like, but nothing abnormal (especially once it's warm). The only consistency I've found is in messing with the wiring harness coming from the distributor. I'll still check the other things, but that is my prime suspect...any way to get around it w/out replacing the whole thing? Guessing I know what I'll be doing on my next day off...sigh... Also: anyone have an idea whether it would be worth replacing the ECU, or are these ghost codes (assuming that's the case) relatively harmless? That is to say, am I looking at Casper or Ghostbusters?

Actually, funny note on the neutral safety switch code. After talking to the dealer tech we decided the EGR code is probably due to the ECU looking for a California engine and seeing a not-CA one. That's fine, it passed emissions and otherwise runs fine so I don't care about that one too much. But I didn't even think about the second part of the motor swap--that it came out of an automatic (and I have a five speed). We swapped in a flywheel/clutch and that was it. But maybe the ECU is expecting a neutral safety switch...? Not sure how it would know, but I can think of several feasible explanations. If it wanted to start but couldn't, might it have cycled through the neutral safety switch code while looking for a problem?

This is a 91 SPFI. Not sure what year the motor came out of (it's a replacement) but it was a Loyale, so still falls in the 88-94 set. I have not yet been able to duplicate the situation, so I have no further information. Good to know both codes will show when the car is not starting...still curious as to why it was having trouble. The engine was at running temperature, running fine until I put pressure on the bolt to 'release' the distributor (the ones that allow it to rotate, not remove it). I fiddled and got it to start while hot, then it sat for a while and would not start again. However, when the mechanic tried it, it started just fine. Then they replaced the rotor and told me that was my entire problem! I was/am skeptical, though Miles' opinion goes a long way (I lurk here a LOT). I may try the disty thing, but let me try cleaning the contacts first. May be a day or two as we are probably going to have 12+ hour days at work all week if today was any indication. I actually have an old distributor from another Loyale I had at one point, may try that if it doesn't prove to be one of the other things mentioned. I have a multi-meter and will also check the temp sensor and...other thing that slipped my mind just now.

I should add that the car IS running, and once I got home I messed around with the distributor and sensor wiring harness trying to get it to stall the car again...no dice. It ran like the champ that it is/was/is. I am so lost...anyway, I'll shut now and wait. I am also baffled as to the neutral safety switch, don't know if I mentioned that. I told the ECU "I DON'T HAVE A NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH", then I reset the computer and it didn't come back, but I was still baffled. Hoping someone knows more than I. Ok, really shutting up this time.

Ok. I am fed up and confused, and just need one freaking piece of information that the book, a neighborhood mechanic, and the dealer (yes, the DEALER) have not been able to tell me. I think someone here may know, though. I hope. About three weeks ago now I replaced the timing belts. There is a brief thread about that somewhere, but it's not important--I put the things on and tightened it all up and got it running. About a week later I went out and *LUNK* goes the motor. No good. Had to run to work, but got to it a few days later. Reset the belts (figured it was a tensioner/skipped tooth). Got it running. Got the car to an emissions test as license plates were due. Opened the hood while I was in line, to see if I could retard the timing a wee bit (it was running faster than I wanted)--normally this is no biggie... Put my socket on the retard/advance loosener bolt thingy on the disty and the car sputtered and died! I didn't even get to loosen the bolt all the way! I fought the car, and the car won. I called a tow truck and took it to a local shop he recommended, and my insurance approved (I was way out of my neighborhood). Before he came, though, I fought the car, as I said. Tried starting, got it running rough a couple times, but only with gas. Let the gas off or turn it off and it wouldn't start again without a lot of work. Kept not firing gas (put paper down by the injector, it stayed dry, etc). The ECU threw me a set of codes, I'll list them here but should preface by saying they weren't all at once, or continuously. Sometimes they came, then I would undo/redo the battery and they wouldn't return for several starting attempts. Then they would come, clear, come, etc. The codes I got were: 11-Crankshaft position sensor 13-Crankshaft reference pulse thingiemabob (not the technical name, my Chilton's is at home) 55-EGR Temp thingy (California only) 51-Neutral Safety Switch in on position (or some such). That is the kicker because...drumroll...I have a manual! Now other info: it is a California car, though I put a non-California motor in it last summer. That *probably* explains the EGR code. I am not too worried about that code in any case. The local shop I took it to fiddled a few days with it and ultimately told me it was just my rotor. They replaced it, and "it runs fine now" (it does, I drove it around for a while). Not satisfied a bad rotor could cause codes 11 and 13 I took it to the dealer. The dealer told me he can't check the car because it's not the stock (California) engine the computer wants, and further "you removed the main radiator fan so I can't idle it to check it..." (the electric fan is out until I am satisfied I am done with the belts), and he commented on a bunch of other mods I've done with the car (a/c is out, dash is in pieces, etc). On the upside, I didn't have to pay the $90 diagnosis fee and got to shoot the breeze with a dealer tech for a while. So...can a bad rotor and/or cap cause codes 11 and 13? (The crankshaft position and reference pulse codes). I am dubious. The first shop was sure that was all it was. The dealer tech said it could be a sensor OR wiring (my thought) but was not allowed to work on the car unless he 'went all the way' (reset everything to OEM, which was a few hundred bucks BEFORE he could even work on the real problem). He also commented that there may be ghosts in the code/computer as it is an older car. I don't want to spend $350 replacing the distributor and ECU...but otoh I *really* don't want to spend that on a tow... Any thoughts? I feel dumb for asking, but figure I can't hurt anything by throwing it out there.

Oops--I should have said *guy's*, not *guys'*...no polygamy that I was aware of. Oh, and he was the original owner, had receipts for EVERYTHING. I kept expecting to find one that said "we stopped to pee" it was that comprehensive. I was really disappointed when it died.

I got a 93 Loyale for $300, running. Had two problems. 1--the radiator had burst and it overheated on the guys' wife's way home. 2--No radiator cap. I put bubble gum on the crack in the rad, filled it up with their hose, drove it home. Stopped every mile to put water in where it sloshed out. It ran great for a week until it died mysteriously...drove it to vacuum it. Then it never started again. The ECU died, I ultimately decided (that was the only possibility I could come up with, mighta been something else though it wasn't any relay or sensor or part I could get to). That was sad. Interior was ************ but the body was beautiful. Was gonna use it to move and then combine it with my 91 Loyale, but ended up sending it to a junkyard after stripping it for parts--some of which are now in use on the '91.

Also--try letting the ECU hang down and see if you can read any of the codes it flashes at you. This is not the check engine light--the computer itself has a little LED you can see through a peephole on the side. Turn the key to 'run' and it will blink a combination of long/short flashes at you. There may be more than one code, so watch until the pattern repeats itself. I just replaced the belts on my Loyale, then after a week or so it died. I figured it was a tensioner, redid all the timing. Got it running. Then it died, then it ran, then it died...the codes were nonsense so I just sent it to a garage, but if the codes make sense on yours it might help you pinpoint the problem. (I think mine is the ECU and/or the crank angle sensor, but who knows.)

Battery is possible, but on my Loyale, at least, it will run even with no battery in it. You need the battery to start it, but it will then continue to run with the battery taken out. I learned this while playing with the engine one day with the battery on the ground (to make work space). Used cables to start the motor, then promptly found my clumsy side and kicked one of the clamps off the battery post...played around with it and yeah! Runs fine with no battery. Not sure if other EA82 models will do the same, but it's way down the list im(v)ho.

The crank pulley requires a 22mm socket. To get it off I put the socket on a breaker bar, stick the breaker bar in a pipe, and set the pipe on the ground or solid piece in the engine compartment--make sure it is pointing to the driver side. Crank the engine for a second or two (you can hear when the bolt releases--the engine will groan, then spin). You can then undo the bolt with your fingers and the pulley just sort of drops off--no puller needed unless you are trying to get the toothed gears off. Chilton's suggests 70ft/lbs (69-76 iirc) to put it back on.

Oops, double post...mod feel free to delete this one! Or everyone just ignore it and scroll down.

Actually, I think I remember there being some odd useless wires the last time I was chasing electrical problems in my EA82. Iirc Subaru had built lots and lots of identical harnesses, then just never used certain wires that had no purpose on the model being built at that time. There may be another model with electric seats or eletric seat belts that required that connector, but yours did not. It was probably easier to just have one bin full of wire harnesses of which you only use some parts than "Joe, I told you a thousand times to get the OTHER bin when we change models...now we have to do 1000 cars all over again!". Someone with more knowledge may be able to shed more light in this direction, but that is as good as my guess will get without breaking out a wiring diagram.

Strangely, I didn't notice uneven cranking. I think both belts went, or one took the other out. I got enough gap at the bottom of the driver side cover to see inside, but could only feel/peer through the little tightening hole to the left side. They have been on their way for a while, and I was hoping to do it next week or mid-May. Oh well. Next time (which I don't plan on happening, but hey--life happens) I'll check the belts first, though! And listen.

Does your fuel gauge work? All the lights in the back? The tail gate/trunk indicator on the dash? Not sure why any of those would need a harness mid-car, but it's a cheap way to rule things in or out. Also, some models have the ECU under the seat, though I believe most, if not all EA82s are under the dash. I think you'd notice if THAT was unplugged though (and it doesn't look like an ECU harness); unless it is a weird looking test connector or code reader harness?

On the previous EA82 I had in my Loyale (that motor is now dead and gone, sadly) we didn't tighten down the tensioner pulley sufficiently and the car died whilst I was on my way to a job one day. That problem was fixed. Then yesterday the belts on the replacement engine failed, or one of them did, at least. Took forever to diagnose because I was getting a freaking spark in the plug I pulled to see if I was getting spark (turns out the rotor stopped in perfect alignment with that wire, pssh...)...figured it out eventually. Most of the faux nut plastic holder thingies in the back seem to be stripped, gonna be a b* to get the covers off! Just do what was said earlier and zip-tie the covers on if you decide to keep them. The timing is easy, though you'll want to replace the front cam seals if they are leaking. The cam sprocket is dummy proof iirc, you can't put it back on wrong (the bolts are aligned a-symmetrically, the sprocket can only go on one way).

I has solved the mystery! First thing I did was pull a plug to check for spark, check air flow, check for gas. Air had no blockage, I got a hell of a shock from the plug I pulled (plus I could hear/see it), and no gas...so...[insert last nights swiss army knife adventure in troubleshooting the fuel line here]. Then today: I got the plug to fire! It put a fair amount of gasoline into the throttle body. The engine *almost* caught. Mind you I spent two hours using the multi-meter to check every possible plug/circuit/what have you--fuel injector, engine temp sensor, ECU everything, my butt...oh, not my butt. But just about everything else! And with no significant issues. Check the blinky light on the ECU...11? The chart says 11 is crank-angle sensor...where...another hour down the drain pouring through every freaking diagram and relevant paragraph in the Chilton's to discover it is on the distributor! Pull the cap, pull the spare (yes I had a spare in the back). Can't find the damn thing. Well, maybe something wore out, I figure, let's see if something is wrong with the rotor. Crank the motor. Nothing. Rotor is stock still. The timing belt is gone! Well, it's *there*, but in a completely useless loop-less form. The ECU wasn't getting info from the crank-angle sensor, so it wasn't firing the injector, so I wasn't going anywhere... But how the hell did I get a spark?????? After more investigation come to find out the plug I checked? Yep, the rotor stopped in exactly the position necessary to fire that plug! My gut initially said timing belt/s. (I have been planning to replace them come May), but the spark threw me for a good three hours or more. Now the car is in an impound lot as I didn't find a wrecker fast enough for the police; I get to rent a car hauler and go pick it up tomorrow...then to fix it...sigh. The things I'll do for my Subaru!

I was on my way home from work today when the motor simply stopped going. I went from 60 to coasting sans motor all too quickly. At first I thought it was the timing belt/s as those are needing to be replaced soon (when I get the money), but it turned out to be a fuel issue. The following is my rough side-of-the-highway assessment. The fuel pump turns on. I get fuel to the filter (and through it). I get fuel all the way TO the throttle body, but the injector doesn't fire. Yes, it is plugged in. I had a spare injector along (don't ask, long story--it's from a parts car I had over a year ago), and tried it (yes, I transferred the fuel line and plugged in the appropriate wire), but nada. I wisely put my tool bag in my apartment before flying to my parents for a funeral last week, and did not wisely put it back in the car when I got home again. The information I have so far is based on diagnosis done with a swiss army knife, keys, and the handle to my floor jack that was conveniently located in the back of the car. And a piece of paper. I hope to retrieve the car tomorrow if I can't, in fact, fix it on the road--it is about 25 miles away...not in a hurry to tow it if I don't have to! Could it be: --a bad fuse I don't know about? I checked all the cabin fuse panel fuses. --a bad circuit? I will take a voltmeter with me to check the resistance and continuity. --ECU gone/going out?...Not in a hurry to gamble on a junkyard ECU if I can help it. How would I know if it IS the ECU? (The fuel pump works, lights work, etc). I've had an ECU fail on a Loyale before, but it was between drives--not while I was going down the road! --A bad injector? Or pair, rather, as I had that random spare with me. --I did try the poor man's...I should say "idiot's" voltmeter. I stuck a wire in the sending end of the injector plug (the harness end) and made sure they weren't touching at the plug. Then I unrolled a few feet of wire and tried for a spark while the engine cranked--nothing, nada, zilch. May need a more sophisticated and somewhat less idiotic tool, but it did get some info... I have had no other fuel related problems with this car. Ever. This is completely out of the blue, or so it seems. I did swap out the fuel pump about a month ago, but that was pre-emptive as the old one was having symptoms of an upcoming catastrophic failure. No other problems in the 500+ miles since. I'll add other info if I think of it, or someone has a question.

That is too bad, I was getting all excited for this. I'll give the a/c compressor a shot, though it will be a while before I can put the time and money into something like that (never having done that particular conversion before).

I've been looking into putting an air tank in the gap between the engine and the firewall (passenger side) in my Loyale. I was reading up on how to go about using the A/C compressor, but I like this idea better if it would work. I knew Subaru had air shocks, but for some reason never thought about the requisite compressor to go along with it--I just imagined you would drive to the gas station before going off-road. Silly me . Any idea how many PSI it puts out, and what the flow rate is? I don't mind doing the minor work involved in hooking everything up, would just need the compressor if it would work for this (I assume it will pump at least 50psi if it is lifting the car...). Anyway, if it is an option I would happily pay shipping and a bit!

I should add that it would be wise to consult a wiring diagram first, or even mess around with a junkyard or parts car if you want to change the switch's function. I would hate to do all the work involved in rigging the switch to turn on foglights only to find out that in undoing the stock wires you broke the circuit for the tail lights or something.

The switch allows you to turn on your running/parking lights without the car being on. My Loyale (and I'm assuming all) will turn all exterior lights off when the ignition is "off"--no questions asked. This way you can't leave your lights on accidentally. I occasionally use the switch when I'm parked roadside at night. Or if I'm camping or at a rest area, it is nice to be able to turn the lights on while I run the dog, make food, etc--it is a nice steady light (vs. hazards) that isn't blinding (vs. headlights) and doesn't require me to leave the key in the car unattended. I have left them on overnight before and survived, though I don't recommend it. Iirc Subaru put the switch in initially because some areas require running lights to be on when cars are parked in loading zones and shoulders? I guess in some places hazards mean "emergency/call police" and not just "I know it's not a parking spot/I hope you don't run over me". The switch allows people to obey the law without leaving the key in the ignition. If hazards vs. parking lights isn't an issue where you live, I imagine you could use it to wire up something not-stock like fog lights or a spotlight.

I've found a few that way, but I think most of them get intercepted before the car ends up in a junkyard. The rest of us snatch them up for parts. That or the owner realizes the error of their ways/what they have, and fix them rather than junk them. Some day I will count all the Fords, Nissans, Hondas, Subies, etc at the junkyard--I just haven't done it yet.