the sucker king

Okay, now I'm freakin terrified. Heres the deal, regardless of why the initial catastrophy happened, what was said in this post makes a lot of sense. There was a lot of aluminum debris in cylinders 2 & 4 as well. I had initially thought that this mashed stuff had squeeked past the piston rings. Looking at it again, some pieces seem too big for this to be possible. Therefore they went all the way across the intake manifold. Surely there was debris left in the intake manifold, And I never thought to look in there and clean it out, as I hadn't seen what this engine looked like inside. That intake is now bolted to the new engine and the car has been run for an hour and driven a few miles. There is a good chance I have screwed up the new engine. What would you do at this point. I hardly want to pull this motor and take the heads off. I suppose I could take the manifold off, clean it out and pull the plugs and blow the cylinders out. What a freakin mess this whole thing is. The worst is that the new engine is from an FE and I really don't want to destroy it. Not exactly common. So what would you guys do from here?

The FOD is definately piston ring. I have nearly recunstructed the entire ring! Shawn, the bellhousing is off, But I can't get the case apart. I don't think it's neccessarily true that the piston and valve met while both intact. Couldn't be as simple and unpredictible as a flaw in the metal of the piston. Engine sat for 10 years plus and was than run at 80 mph for over 200 miles straight, piston cracks, flies and hits valve. I will open the case in the next few days. Can you do that w/out pulling the wrist pins? also I can't get the oil pump off.outer shell came off but left the base plate and such on the block.

Here's an update. I take back what I said. The object that subymech pointed out is not part of the piston. It is not alluminum. I had noticed the piece (we will call it FOD since we are calling it FOD!) and it looked like aluminum, I figured it to have been a piece of piston that exited #1 via vacant intake valve and into #3 via working intake valve. This piece is definately steel, it sticks to a magnet. There are only 2 possibilities. This piece came through the intake, or it came from the crankcase via vacant #1 intake valve. I need to crack the case and see where this came from. I have a broken down engine in my shed I will look for where this piece came from, barring that I will need to take the case apart, If I can't rotate the crank enough to pull the pins, can I just Pull the case apart with the pistons still attached to the crankshaft? I will post pics of FOD removed from the piston. The plot thickens! A couple things bother me, one is Abog posted that pieces of crap were found under his carb after such catastrophe. I have already installed the intake with carb on the replacement engine. Never looked for debris. Been running the car. Also, if FOD came down the intake, what is to say there's not more where that came from? I'm running the same intake. We'll see. For those that didn't read the seized engine thread, This was a newly installed 63K engine with a new out of box weber on top. Engine sat for 10 plus years, and I do think there was pressure built up in the crankcase. see the seized ea71 thread for details. Any mistakes were most likely mine, ie, tools etc. unless the guy I got the engine from hucked a nickel in the head for good luck...... But I honestly don't think I left anything to chug down the intake.

"My dad's a television repairman....He's got the ultimate set of tools.....I can fix it."

The piece in question is a piece of piston I believe. It is aluminum and it looks just like a piece of piston. I think we're on the wrong track there.

All I can see is the thumbnail. It just spins when I click it. What is circled? If it's the thing lodged in the #3 piston, I think thats a chunk of the #1 piston. Can you post your pic some other way?

Here's the ea71 I seized. I still want to know why this happened.

I put an FE engine in my 77 wagon tonight. I have heard that they were supposed to have different heads, maybe different cam and bigger valves. Was gonna tear this engine down to compare, but needed something to drop in my car badly. The thing runs really good, I only drove it a couple miles, but it seemed quicker that the other ea71s I have run. I had been sceptical of the FE myth, I figured the FEs performance was due to it's tranny, But now I'm not so sure. Mine is mounted to a 4wd trans, and it seemed quicker. Has anyone torn one down and compared the engine parts to other ea71s?

put a junkyard FE engine in my 77 wagon today, this was the same engine I asked about metal in the pan. It fired right up and made this awefull loud knocking noise, I thought oh crap, what a waste of time. I let it run for about a couple minutes then revved it and the noise went away very quickly. What was it, did it just need to get some oil flowing? The engine has been sitting in my shed for a couple years, who knows when the last time it ran was. I drove it a couple miles and it ran REALLY good. pretty zippy.

most everyone uses a 32/36 dgv. My guess is that 38 in front is a barrell size. If the carb is a double barrel, look on the base of the carb on the secondary side, DGV should be stamped on it with barrell sizes above that.

I could probobly scan some stuff that would be helpful to you. Will try tonight. Is she cute?

Hey Shawn, yeah and yeah. I 've decided to throw it in. Should be tomorrow night. I was putting new gaskets and seals in it last night when I found the metal in the pan. All I want is to get that wagon running. This engine is from that FE at pull n save that you helped me pull a couple years ago. We'll see.......

There is a little bit of ground metal in the oil pan of a junkyard motor I am about to install. Maybe 1/4 of a dimes weight total. I know it's not good, but is it somewhat typical or should I go with another engine?

Having fun yet? the piston removal thing is that you need a special tool to pull the wrist pins out through little access holes. The tool is like a puller with a slide hammer. Some guys on this board have made their own tools to get out of tracking down the real deal, with great success. perhaps somebody will post a pic of a homemade wrist pin puller? No hyrodrolic lifter stickers means it should have solid lifters. The significance of the location of the ea71 stamp is that the ones stamped on the front of the block are year 1980 and newer. Before that they were stamped on the block above the #4 cylinder. Also significant is the location of the starter mounting hole on the bellhousing. Is it Center top or more towards the drivers side? The latter has a larger flywheel and can be mounted to newer transmissions. Keep us posted, we are full of advice, or at least full of something....

I got it into the garage, pulled plug #1 and it was completely smashed, so it looks like a piston went flyin'. I will be tearing into this this weekend, might go back to the shop tonight and prep the engine for removal. Thanks for the help, I'll post carnage pics after I crack it open. it would go 1/6 turn or so and hard stop

You guys may be on it with the water thing. The coolant is down a couple inches, I will probobly pull the plugs and see if it turns. I should have the car in the garage tonight, but it looks like the hoist I was borrowing is not coming through for this weekend. I will probobly drain the oil and see if there is coolant in it today. Yes the manifold has the carb preheat passage, I have heard of people jb welding it when putting the weber on, I never have, I used a little silicon gasket sealer around the passage. I have run webers for yaers now, never had coolant leak there before. Will pull the carb and adapter plate to confirm if that is the direction this leads. Thanks, John

McBrat, you asked me in PM if I pulled the plugs and tried to turn it. I have not, but what is the thought behind this? Don't forget to adress the PCV issues I mentioned in previous post. Tomorrow I will drain the oil, pull the pan and I'll try the spark plug thing. I'll crack the case once I get my other engine in and running.

yup.

I thought this, but did the engine still turn when it happened? Do you mean push rod or connecting rod?

the passenger side valve cover hose went direct into the air cleaner. The driver side valve cover hose went to a t fitting and then down to the pcv valve on the top of the manifold. The port on the t fitting that could/should go to the air cleaner was capped. Although it would idealy go to the air cleaner, I have run this set up on another car and this car with the old engine, and all seemed to be fine. Let me get this straight, passenger side valve cover is taking air in, driver side pushing it out? I don't see any reason the PCV would not function properly without the line going to the air cleaner. Isn't that just to mix clean air with the blow by gas coming out of the valve cover before sending it back to intake?

I've got this stuff from other engines, I can help you out with that. PM me with a want list. have tons of stuff.

Alright, here is the story.... A couple months ago I put an ea71 w/ 63k miles in my 77 wagon. The engine had been sitting for 10 years or more. It fired right up, and after lots of miscillaneous tinkering over the next couple months, I ended up with a car that was running smooth as butter, I had a brand new out of the box weber on this low mileage engine, and every tune up item on it was new, plugs wires, oil and fuel filters. I also put an electronic disty on it to replace the points type that was on it. I had driven the new engine for 1000 miles or so by the time I got it running great, and I mean it really was running great. So on monday I headed out east to the plains of Colorado at 2:30 in the morning. It was the last day of pheasant season and the plan was that Stanley (my dog) and I were going to put on at least 500 miles skirting the Kansas border in search of birds. An hour before sunrise, over 200 miles from home, somewhere between Flagler and Burlington (the middle of nowhere), The engine seized up at speed on the highway. No noises, no warning lights, temperature gauge normal. We were dead in the water. So here's what I found when I popped the hood. First, there was oil all over the place. It seemed to be coming from under the disty. The engine was smoking, it may have been oil burning off of the case. The engine won't turn with I wrench. no oil reading on the dipstick. At this point I figured for whatever reason all the oil leaked out under the disty and the engine seized. must have a faulty oil sending unit, as I got no light, and I don't know why the temp gauge read normal, unless the oil just blew out real fast and the water didn't have time to heat up. So I open the oil filler cap, smoke comes out, and it smells awefull. I add one quart of oil and to my surprise, it brings the level on the dipstick up enough to read driveable. It had not lost as much as I thought. It was maybe 1 + 3/4 quarts from full. Anyways, the engine is still seized, it is sitting in front of my shop, and I am going to put another engine in this weekend. In trying to figure this out, I've been wondering why oil was coming out of the disty. I didn't replace the o-ring on the shaft when I did the disty swap, but for that much oil to come out of there, there must have been a lot of pressure built up inside the crankcase. I checked the PCV valve, it apears to be functional. I removed it and can blow through it when it's upright, and I can feel the thing rattling when I shake it. The top of the valve had a lot of oil on it, again I took that to mean pressure in the crankcase. I will Know more as I dig into it. I haven't dropped the oil pan or anything other than I described to you here. I want you guys to help me figure out why this happened. I am sure we will confirm it when I take it apart. Any guesses? Please discuss.

the basics are that it is a 16oo cc horizontally opposed, water cooled, pushrod 4 cylinder. You can get the factory service manual on ebay for under $20 usually and that will walk you through dismantling it and reassembling it. They are pretty simple engines. You will have the time of your life. Also gasket kits are available on ebay, which you will want if you really want the engine to run. Have fun!

That would fit right in up in Ward!

One more thing make sure the disty shaft doesn't have much wiggle.