Robert M

Andy said earlier: This is definitely the BIG ONE as far as poor mileage results. And without an overdrive... If you got 20mpg driving a little slower, you did well.

Last time I replaced the starter on my own 87 wagon, I took off that cover and out dumped about a quarter-cup of black metal burned garbage. :-\ And the armatures were BLACK, not copper-colored. Yeah...I guess it was time to get a new one.

Ha...the wife finally admits she killed the engine with bad shifting and then it wouldn't restart. I.E. it didn't just 'die' as she was going down the road. That woman...:-\ Starter was junk. Nothing else was really wrong, although I re-did most of the grounds and checked all the underhood wiring pretty thoroughly. Cleaned up a lot of it around the battery and alternator, just on general principles. It's back on the road and runs great again. Thanks to all of you for your suggestions!

Check Aaron's Auto Wrecking in White Center, (South Seattle). He handles Subie (I think exclusively). I was up there today buying a starter for my 87 wagon and he said he knows about USMB and he mentioned this with some pride: 'Suburu of America actually sends people to me now for parts, and they are recommending me...' (as a source for parts that Subie no longer makes) I've done business with Aaron previously. He's a really nice guy and won't sell you crap stuff.

Well, you could be right about the generator. The portable power is smaller and lighter. I got a nice chain free one time, so I carry that, but it is a hassle, a strap would be better. But the chain saw up here, especially in spring, is a good thing. When the roads first open up, sometimes there are lots of downed trees on the road. I didn't even think of the GPS. Good idea.

I've been wandering the Forest Service roads in the Olympics and Cascades since 1972 or so, and along the way I learned some hard lessons about Subies and what to take. I'm sure some of you have your own suggestions, but these are the things I take along when I'm going out into the high country for more than a weekend. (Adjusted list for modern times:cool: ) 1) Cell phone with your 12-volt charger. Sounds simple, I know. But I found that even in the remotest areas, you can usually get a signal these days if you can get up high enough. 2) Shovel - Good for campfire pit cleaning and if you get REALLY stuck, sometimes you can build yourself a bit of extra road under your wheels. 3) Chain Saw - Those downed trees on Forest Service roads are really annoying, and a bow saw just doesn't do the job. You get WAY too tired after just cutting ONE out of your way. Also good for firewood and for cutting stuff to stick under the wheels. 4) Tow Chain - A heavy one. If you get seriously stuck and someone comes along, the first thing they always ask is: "You got a chain?" 5) Come-a-long - Seriously, if you get stuck badly this and a good chain can sometimes be the only reliable way to get yourself out. All you need is a good tree to hook it to. One time, I nearly put a Subie over the side of a mountain, and there were no trees. I pounded a heavy metal pole about three feet long into the road above, hooked up the chain and come-a-long to it, and slowly pulled out the car. 5) Good Map - Yeah. Just TRY telling someone on a cell phone how to find you out in the mountains if you don't have a good map that lists Forest Service road numbers. Not easy. 6) Generator or Portable Power Unit - In case your battery goes dead and you are in a place where you can't push-start. The power unit is the cheaper way to go. 7) Spare Electric Fuel Pump - No electric fuel pump, you aren't going anywhere. I keep one in the right-hand storage box near the hatchback. 8) Tool Kit - Can't fix the problem if you don't have at least the basic tools. Toss in some wire and fuses for good measure. 9) Plug-Type Tire Repair Kit - I learned this lesson after getting TWO flats on the same trip. Throw in a spray-can of Fix-a-Flat and a good hand pump with a METAL end (part that fits on the valve) NOT plastic. 10) Spare hoses, belts, and jacks - Keep all your old hoses and belts, as long as they are not TOTAL junk, and throw them in storage in the back. TWO jacks are better than one when trying to get out of a bad situation.

Thought I'd better come back and post, because I think I figured out the problem. First, the wife said she was driving normally when it died, but to be honest...she doesn't know much about cars and probably killed the motor by slipping her foot off the clutch. She's done this before while I was in the car. I pulled the starter and took off the long bolts and screws. I dumped out two big tablespoons of burned up metal crap onto the ground. The copper wiring was hardened and black. I put in another old starter I had lying around that I already knew made a good connection, but was sometimes failing to engage. (The old 'whing-whing thing') and it caught right away. So, I figured it must be the starter. The only thing I can figure is that the starter shorted out and drew a bunch of power suddenly, killing the car, and then wouldn't restart because the starter was fried. Or...Gayla's foot slipped off the clutch again and the starter was no good and wouldn't restart. In any case, I redid a lot of the other wiring and I'm going to pick up a new starter tomorrow... Thanks to everyone who volunteered their suggestions. Pretty hard to 'fix' a car on the internet. On a side note, my Subie's been on so many Forest Service roads in Washington State that I don't even need a map to find my way around them anymore. If you live in Washington, and you wonder where you can take your Subie HIGH UP, try Darland Mountain over by Yakima. Altitude, 6,800 feet, and that's a lot higher than Snoqualmie Pass. Fairly decent road, and on a good day you can see from Mt. Hood in Oregon to Mt. Baker in the north part of the state. The whole Cascade chain. Darland is the second highest place in Washington you can drive to, with Hart's Pass being just slightly higher. But skip Hart's Pass. It's full of tourists in motorhomes. Darland has plenty of offroad ops on the back side, too. You get there by going to Yakima and then taking the Ahtanum Road back east.

I sure wish I had a picture of it, but I don't. My father comes home in 1969 (I think it was '69, about 90% sure) with this brand new tiny white two-door car with red upholstery inside. He told my mother: 'Look! I got this from the dealer in Auburn (Washington State) for $850!' He said the dealer had five of them, and couldn't sell them at $1350, so he sold them all for $850. Imagine a brand new car for $850... My mother wasn't impressed though. She pushed her hand on the back fender and it popped in, then she reached inside the fender, inside the wheel well, and popped it back out. 'Look at that," she said. "I'm not driving THAT." Ha. Ha. She took me to California in it, and it was my first time driving anywhere, really. I have an 87 wagon I love, but for the REAL experts on this forum, I don't know much about these ancient Subies, I'll admit. I think I remember that it had a 360cc engine. (?) I thought: 'Geez...my Honda bike has a 350 cc...' :-\ Anyway, we kept the car for a couple of years. I kept finding all these funny little options hidden on it. My brother and I stole it from the family driveway for midnight rides fairly regularly. Many years later, when I told my father what we used to do at night with the car, he still got mad, even after all those years.

Evans Creek? I know that place. You access it by going through Wilkeson. I see the snow is still pretty heavy up there. No surprise...it broke records this year and I don't think they'll be opening Chinook Pass anytime soon. Nice lift, BTW.

I'll stop in here tomorrow after work. I'm going to try a few things, first.

I suspect the ignition switch, although the car just dying while going down a flat road at 25mph makes me wonder. I didn't want to mention this before, but this Subie was stolen from me a few years back. It finally came home a couple of years ago, but then any key would start it, since the theives dropped out the tumblers or used a new switch with some tumblers removed. I'm definitely going to replace this switch tomorrow, just on GP. Belts are only 12k miles old. And when one broke previously, the car still turned over. I replaced/cleaned/repaired most of the alternator connections today, and the major ground connections underhood. Finally ran out of daylight. Tomorrow, I'll do the new battery cable and I will do the things mentioned in the previous posts. Battery was good when the car died, not discharged. In fact, I used it later that day to jump an (sticks finger down throat) old Jetta. It fired the Jetta right up. Oh...I live in Washington state, just south of Seattle.

I live in the north end of Auburn behind the Elks club, near 22nd st. Well, it's not the t-belt, I don't think. I rolled the car back and forth in second gear and the rotor still turns. I'm cleaning up the connections right now. The sudden death on the road is a mystery, though. After I towed it home, I thought I smelled a little burned wiring near the firewall, but nothing obvious. If the ignition switch finally died, would that make the car just stop? In the ON position, all accessories work normally. In the START position, just a couple of clicks and then nothing. Battery is good. Question: If the positive cable was no good, would that make a subie just quit running. I know other cars where you can disconnect the cables while the car is running and the car keeps running.

I'm going to go through and check all the grounds and connections, but I wonder about the sudden dying on the road. First the connections, though. I was reviewing that thread you spoke about. Good place to start.

I have a spare starter for this car. (I go offroad a lot, so I keep a spare starter and fuel pump in the back.) I laid this starter on top of the engine block and unhooked the connections from the old starter, then connected them to the spare starter. Turning key...same thing. Starter doesn't turn over. Heard a couple of clicks. I checked the battery, it's fully charged... I suspect there is a bad connection somewhere, but the way the wagon just died going down the street makes me wonder.

Blown t-belt? But the starter would still turn over, right? I rolled the car back and forth to see if the motor was frozen, but the flywheel does turn. T-belt replaced about 12k miles back.

Geez...I had to go in and re-write all my information for the board! It's been FAR too long since I dropped by! My 1987 4WD wagon stopped running. I would sure appreciate some advice, although I'm not a bad mechanic, it was the WIFE who was driving when it died. Motor died while going down the street normally at 25mph. Turning key to re-start, starter doesn't turn. Clicks a couple of times. Battery is good. All accessories work, all lights, fuel pump still hums along. Checked fusible links, nothing seems burned. Also same with kick panel fuse box. I pulled them all and checked. All are good. Jumped across terminals on starter with key ON. Spark, which startled me a bit, but no cranking. Some of my connections probably need cleaning, but I wondered about the way it just died suddenly...

My answer is this: Because I have an 87 Wagon that came with some good options. Dual-range 4wd and five-speed, power steering and AC. Not much nowadays, I know. But just enough to make reasonable 4wd weekend stuff a lot of fun. I like the jacked-up look in the back end of the wagon, so when you fill it up with supplies and gear, it just levels out, while other cars sag near the ground. Easy to shift, maintain, and drive. Turns on a damn dime for a wagon. I had a Toyota truck that was shorter than the Subie, and the subie can turn a lot tighter circle. And lets face it...if the old wagons look good, occasionally you get a look of envy from the driver of a new Subie wagon. Not often, but it happens.

The battery, starter, cables on this otherwise reliable 87 4wd dual-range Wagon are brand new. Turn the key and you get a click-click-click coming from a six-inch square box under the dashboard. There's a red light on the box. You can feel the click coming from inside the box. Ignition relay? Thanks in advance... Robert M. Blevins WAIT!!!! Update...Problem WAS the battery cable originally. I found out you really SHOULD hook up the little wire back on the starter motor...(LOL) Problem fixed.

You can always take the remaining needle to a good machine shop. They can fabricate one for you. May cost a few bucks, though.

I'm working on my '87 wagon, and one of my neighbors happened along. We discussed the usual Subie stuff, and he filled me in on a few details, since I was a newbie... He has an XT-6 'special edition' (whatever that means, since I am not overly familiar with the model) sitting under cover in Kent. License ran out in '02. He says he is eventually calling the junkyard. Someday. I guess he's in no hurry to do this. The battery and exhaust are gone, otherwise it looks complete. He said it ran when he shut it down, let it sit for a long time, then forgot it when he couldn't restart it... Anyone interested can e-mail me with a way to contact and I will pass it on to him, then you are on your own. I live up near 272nd on the West Hill of Kent.

There are only two wires to the pump, red and black. I grounded the black one and hooked up the red to the hot lead. Since the car ran normally before, even with the missing alternator and leaky pump, I have to suspect this is the problem. Small amount of gas is getting up front, enough to put SOME into the filter, but that's all. Maybe when I fire up the motor, the current draw is too much and there isn't enough coming through for the pump to work properly. Tomorrow I will hook the hot lead from the pump directly to the hot side of the coil, and install a switch, maybe this will work. Someone on another thread did this (switch is for safety in case of an accident) and it worked. Since I changed nothing else on the car, I think this may be the problem. Maybe.

JUST A FUNNY STORY: Back in 1969, my father came home with a brand-new 360. Being a newbie here, it was white and resembles a mini-vw bug...red vinyl interior and fenders you could pop in with your hand, and then reach up inside and pop back out. This car sold at the dealer's for $1,350. Dealer couldn't sell them, so he sold one to dad brand new for $850. That's not a typo. Two weeks later, my folks had a big fight (they did make up later and are still together) and my mom decided to take the car from Seattle to Long Beach to stay with family for a couple of weeks. She dragged me along, and so we drove this tiny car all the way to LA and beyond, and back. It never missed a beat. After they reconciled and we drove the subie back to Seattle, my brother and I liked that little car so much, we would 'borrow' it at night regularly after everyone was asleep! One time we came home at 3am and dad was waiting for us in the front room......

Did it start this right after the conversion, or have you had it running okay for awhile now...

Could it be a problem caused when the brakes draw full vacuum from the brake booster unit?? This is strictly a guess...I'm a newbie to subie.

My neighbor has an XT-6 with plates expired two years ago, sitting under cover in another building where I live. Now, I think I'll go make an offer, or at least look at the thing. I liked the options I read about here, sound interesting. My wife will say: why don't you get the wagon running first! he he! (Yeah, right!)