samneric Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 So I am still working on getting my '98 OBW back together following a tranny reseal. I can't wait to drive it and have been perusing the forums in the meantime, trying to learn about the dreaded HG problems so I can spot the symptoms if they occur. My latest learning was that I can determine which generation of HG's I have on the car by checking the exposed top corner. I have 210k on the odo so have been naturally apprehensive about which version is sealing my top-end. Good news is - While inspecting tonight, I noticed a rivet hole in the gasket - I HAVE 2ND GEN, 3 LAYER HGS!!!! :banana: There have been a lot of posts regarding the concerns of the HGS so I thought I'd contribute one of a positive nature Maybe start a new thread..... Which gen HG's are in your pocket! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Recently installed FelPro HGs. 3 layer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Recently installed FelPro HGs. 3 layer. I have heard that FelPro HGs don't work that well in Subaru's and you will probably have to replace them again soon. Good Luck! http://allwheeldriveauto.com/the-wrong-subaru-head-gaskets-in-seattle/ As to the OPs question I believe that the current design is 4 layer MLS, or maybe that's the new gasket that won't fit on the older Subaru's? but I can't seem to find that link. http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/ A 3 layer MLS means the HGs have been replaced and many have said that if the HGs are replaced properly and the engine did not overheat significantly, the replacements can last considerably longer than the original style. Good find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 If by "soon" you mean in 100,000 miles, then good. THis engine will have 300,000 on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 If by "soon" you mean in 100,000 miles, then good. THis engine will have 300,000 on it. It's not worth it to use the Fel-Pro's. The OEM gaskets are now 4 Layer and are $34 each. There's no win with the Fel-Pro's except possibly a small cost savings - still not worth the chance of failure - Subaru did away with all the stock of 3 Layer units for some reason - I don't know the story as to why but they felt it was worth it to dumpster them...... But if they are 3 Layer MLS - based on the 2nd gen OEM gasket - they will probably be fine. It's unlikely you will have a failure. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The FelPros are a much higher quality than the original ones on the engine. It's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The FelPros are a much higher quality than the original ones on the engine. It's fine. Hard to say for sure. Fel-Pro has not been providing quaity head gaskets for the Subaru EJ engines. People have been burned before and that's why we don't use them. It took Subaru 4 try's to get to the current 4 layer design and they built the engine - I wouldn't trust any aftermarket brand simply because of this. And also because the 4 layer current design is totally indestructible - I haven't heard of a single blow-out and my guess is that you would crack a head or melt something before you blew that gasket. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Hard to say for sure. Fel-Pro has not been providing quaity head gaskets for the Subaru EJ engines. People have been burned before and that's why we don't use them. It took Subaru 4 try's to get to the current 4 layer design and they built the engine - I wouldn't trust any aftermarket brand simply because of this. And also because the 4 layer current design is totally indestructible - I haven't heard of a single blow-out and my guess is that you would crack a head or melt something before you blew that gasket. GD Like I said, FelPro is far superior to what originally came with our engines. it'll last a lot longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted October 15, 2010 Author Share Posted October 15, 2010 Not sure about Felpro or not but I know in the grand scheme of things.... 3 layer is better than '98 OEM. Next time I need to do a reseal on the engine.... 4 layer it is.... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Like I said, FelPro is far superior to what originally came with our engines. it'll last a lot longer. Speculation. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Speculation. GD So is any supposition that FelPro makes an inferior product. Due to what? Anecdotal evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted October 15, 2010 Author Share Posted October 15, 2010 So is any supposition that FelPro makes an inferior product. Due to what? Anecdotal evidence? Someone already posted the evidence me thinks... http://allwheeldriveauto.com/the-wrong-subaru-head-gaskets-in-seattle/ Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Someone already posted the evidence me thinks... http://allwheeldriveauto.com/the-wrong-subaru-head-gaskets-in-seattle/ Steve The word "FelPro" does not exist on that page. It's intellectually dishonest to link to a page about faulty headgaskets and claim they are FelPro, yet the page in question has no such statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 So is any supposition that FelPro makes an inferior product. Due to what? Anecdotal evidence? Due to lots of my own experience with both Fel-Pro and OEM gaskets. This started years ago - back when I did a lot of EA engine work. None the wiser, I bought Fel-Pro thinking I would save money over the dealer - MISTAKE. There are numerous gaskets that are obviously inferior just on a cursory examination. Their intake manifold gaskets are a great example - Fel-Pro makes them from more or less cardboard on the EA's - looks like you cut the side out of cereal box. The OEM gaskets are twice as thick and made from grapite impregnated steel like just like the head gaskets. Since coolant flows though them the Fel-Pro's don't live long in this environment. I had one blow out and strand me 20 miles from home about 5 years ago. I haven't bought much from them since but I've had occasion to see their gaskets in person on many occasions. Their intake and exhaust gaskets suck, their cork gaskets are cheap and soft, and based on this alone I wouldn't even consider using their EJ head gaskets. Their EA head gaskets are good - the Perma-Torque line of composition head gaskets are a time saver on the EA's becaue they don't require a retorque like the OEM one's. But those are a totally different animal than the EJ MLS gaskets. Fel-Pro *can* make good gaskets - but like any other company they need to make money and they put their engineering effort into stuff that will do that - I absolutely love their one-peice, silicone SBC oil pan gaskets - well worth the $27 for one. It's not that I dislike Fel-Pro - on the contrary - for *some* stuff their gaskets are great. But I have learned to distrust their products on Subaru's and when you take into account all the trouble that Subaru themselves had with sealing the EJ25D properly as well as the negligable price difference..... it's a no-brainer - OEM all the way. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Like I said, anecdotal evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Like I said, anecdotal evidence. No - not at all. Everyone else on this site will back me. We don't buy Fel-Pro gaskets because there's no reason to. There's no cost savings, the OEM gaskets are spectacular and the risk is too great. To even consider buying anything else (from any manufacturer - including Fel-Pro) is just silly. The motivations of the two companies are entirely different - Fel-Pro is in business to sell gaskets and make money doing it. Subaru is in business to sell cars and build a reputation for quality. If they have to lose money on a gasket to insure there isn't a repetitive problem with them - they will. I don't care who makes them - aftermarket EJ25D head gaskets are NOT ACCEPTABLE. Period. End of discussion. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 You do know what anecdotal evidence is, right? Your own experience is anecdotal. Other peoples' experiences are also anecdotal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 You do know what anecdotal evidence is, right? Your own experience is anecdotal. Other peoples' experiences are also anecdotal. It's not an "experience" thing - many people on this site including myself have seen both in person and it's obvious which is better. Not to mention the failure rates which are considerably higher. I've been here a long time - wrenched on more Subaru's than I can even count at this point - and aftermarket just doesn't cut it for Subaru gaskets. I'm here every day and you won't find a thread about how Subaru's gaskets suck - but you will find many where people have been bitten by an aftermarket gasket of one form or another. Call it anecdotal and try to convince yourself I'm full of hot air if you like - but that's the way it is whether you like it or not. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Subaru did away with all the stock of 3 Layer units for some reason - I don't know the story as to why but they felt it was worth it to dumpster them...... GD I think it's because these gaskets still have an entire side coated in a thin rubber type material. Where the material is exposed to the openings in the head, the layer flakes off, eventually clogging raditors, and leaving a ragged edge that I feel is the way that the combustion pressure start to seep under the gaskets. The newest MLS type have what seems to be a soft metalic coating on all the mating surfaces, but none on the open/exposed area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Fel Pro does not make good ej25 gaskets. Fel Pro rep on here I suppose does not like what we are telling him. They are no good for a ej25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 at 16,000+ posts, I will buy what GD is selling LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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