83 GL Electrical issue

[83 GL Scooby]

I'm close to stumped on this and could really use some help.

The symptoms:

1. analog gauges, at first, only read correctly at intermittent intervals and now not correct at all. They read and change but not correct. Oil pressure is the only one. Makes sense since it's mechanical.

2. When I turn on the heater/defrost fan, gauges get further off and fan doesn't run at full speed.

3. Turning on the lights makes the problem worse.

4. When I turn on the fan or lights all the dash indicator lights glow dimly

5. Now, as of yesterday, the dash lights pulsate, whether the car is running or not.

6. Fresh this morning, after the installation of the new alternator, I unplugged what appears to be a small computer box under the steering column and left it unplugged to see if it changed anything. It didn't. After coming back to the car 10-15 minutes later and plugging it back in a couple things happen.

A. The red indicator light inside flashes 7 times slow and then 3 times quick.

B. There is a small relay behind the Carb. that pulsates like it's trying to click into place but can't. I had previously heard it click when I would pull on the momentary high beam lever even though unplugging it didn't effect the beam operation. It pulses at the same rate as the dash lights. Really a buzz instead of a click.

 

I installed a new battery and a new alternator to try to correct the problem.

I'm at a loss... Your help and feedback is greatly appreciated.

[skishop69]

Sounds like a bad ground to me. Check the ground to the engine and body, and if you don't find anything obvious, add a ground from the negative bat post to the nearest body bolt. Be sure to clean the area around the bolt so you have some clean, exposed metal for a good ground.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Also: Bad Alternator's Regulator for Sure!

[83 GL Scooby]

Thank you for the reply. I am under the impression that the regulator is internal in the alternator. I just replaced the alternator...??

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

if you Replaced the Alt with an Used one, that Doesn't Mean it is OK.

I Kindly Suggest you to Use a Voltmeter and Check how much Output gives the Alt, under Acceleration and at idle Speeds, and Give us Feedback to Help you.

Kind Regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I Forgot to Write that Not all Alternators have their Regulators Built inside, The ones that Have it, have a Sticker that Says somethin' like: "IC Regulated"

 

The Ones Without Built in Regulators, send their Output Power Lines to a Black Box (Usually) with Size around 3" Wide X 2" Tall and 2" Deep (Not Exact Measurements, just to give you an Idea) Which is an External Regulator.

 

Pics of your Setup Could do Magic to Figure out the Issue.

 

Kind Regards.

[83 GL Scooby]

The Alt I bought was a reman. The information said it was internally regulated. I called the company I bought it from to verify and they said it was definitely internally regulated. I checked voltage at the battery and with or without the fan and lights on it is right about 14.3. I looked for an external regulator and unless it is in the dash somewhere I am confident it isn't in the engine compartment.

I have pictures ready, but I don't know how to upload. My apologies. Thank you again for your help!!

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

To Post a Picture, First Upload it to a Free Pics Host Website, like Photobucket; then just open the Uploaded picture and Right Click over it: "Copy" the Pic, then here you just need to do another Right Click in the Post You're Writin': "Paste" the Pic... and Voilá.

Kind Regards.

[skishop69]

You're not going to find an external regulator because it doesn't have one. Check the grounds. If they're good, check the voltage at the ignition sw. This isn't a charging system issue.

[83 GL Scooby]

[TeamCF]

Crummy connections. Check grounds, plugs, and all that kind of stuff. Could be under the hood or under the dash somewhere.

 

Where exactly?...... Wish I could say.

 

I know on my 83 GL the volt gauge reads wrong at times. And it's due to corrosion on the back of the cluster where the gauge mounts to the panel.

there are two studs with nuts that hold it on and provides the electrical connection. When I clean it it'll work fine for awhile. Need to do it again and put some dielectric grease on there.

 

That's my example. But every time I find something acting up like that it's usually a dirty, corroded, loose connection somewhere. Hey, pushin 30 years old on the wiring! They can be a pain to find. (or sometimes it's the first wire ya wiggle)

 

Another example is my fuel pump quit. Crawled under it and unplugged it and plugged it back in. Turns out some crud was in the plug at the pump. Worked fine after that. Got home and crimped it tighter with some pliers a bit and dielectric greased it up. Two years now no problems.

Edited December 2, 2010 by TeamCF

[Cougar]

The trouble you are having could be due to bad ground connection from the battery to the chassis so try cleaning that and other grounds. You could also make a ground jumper to verify the trouble is due to a bad ground. Tie one side of the jumper to the battery ground lead and then touch the other end of the jumper to suspected bad ground points. If things clear up when you do that you know you need to fix the connection.

 

The trouble may also be due to bad connection to the fusible links or the power wire to the links so check them out. The ignition switch connections are another possibility. Using a voltmeter you can check for voltage losses at the fuses and other suspected areas.

[83 GL Scooby]

Thank you to all. Great suggestions. I have cleaned the ground to the chassis and to the engine from the negative terminal of the battery. I have thoroughly cleaned both battery terminals and reapplied. I get 13.8 at the battery while operating, whether I have the fan and lights on or not. At the ignition switch the voltage is just over 14V. I'm not sure where else to clean or what to look for.

 

Does anyone know what the small round "relay" looking and sounding device is that is behind (toward the rear of the car) the carb and a bit toward the passenger side? it has a small "post" that comes out horizontally with a black plastic "knob" that turns but doesn't seem to adjust or turn in or out. It was described in the original post. It clicks when the high beams are turned on but is a long way away from the lights and seems to be in too odd a location to be associated with the lights. Also, when unplugged, the lights function as normal. I don't want to go off topic since the rest of the problem is of higher priority, but since it now does the weird pulsing buzz thing it may be effected and/or related and might help in diagnosing.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

[Crazyeights]

That small round headlamp relay was causing LOTS of problems with my dash cluster and gauges. In fact I had given up on finding/fixing it until my low beams went out completely and I had to. Check the connection at the relay connector as well. If you are using used relays try 2 or 3 before you put it back together to make sure you get a good one, or just convert to the newer square style relay. Someone wrote a How-To on here for that.

 

Good Luck. BTW I think this is the first time in a LONG time all my gauges are somewhat accurate now:grin:

 

BTW just re-read your first post. My lamp relay is in the dash near the switch. No idea what that other thing is you are talking about.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Crazyeights

[ferox]

Does anyone know what the small round "relay" looking and sounding device is that is behind (toward the rear of the car) the carb and a bit toward the passenger side? it has a small "post" that comes out horizontally with a black plastic "knob" that turns but doesn't seem to adjust or turn in or out.

I think you might be looking at the idle up solenoid...if memory serves. I removed mine a long time ago. What does it have connected to it? Wires and vacuum lines or just wires?

[83 GL Scooby]

@Crazyeights - there are two round relays next to the fusebox. I assume you mean these. I will check that out and replace with P&B relays. Great suggestion, thank you.

 

@Ferox - It only has a pair of wires going into it. Here's a pic.

 

THANK YOU BOTH!

 

[Cougar]

The device in the picture is a solenoid that is used in the vacuum lines for emissions. It also looks like it is broken as that happens a lot and they are very expensive to replace (at least with a new one). It has nothing to do with the trouble you are having with the dash.

 

Your relply shows you have good voltage at the ignition switch which means the trouble is beyond that point. You need to check the voltage getting to the dash along with the grounding for it. Some of the gauges (like the fuel and temperature gauges) have a voltage regulator in the circuit to them. The trouble you are having may be with it. You need to make sure that the regulator is getting at least 12 volts to it and then check the output voltage of the regulator.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Cougar

[83 GL Scooby]

BIG THANKS to all of you. Really. This morning I dropped everything down so I could really have a good look under the dash and I came across a heavy ground wire coming out of the largest wiring bundle. It was hanging there with a broken ring terminal. A new terminal and a good ground location and everything seems fine. Thanks again to all of you for your help!!:)

 

@Cougar - In looking at that solenoid we were discussing from the picture above, it doesn't appear broken anywhere nor do I have vacuum lines that don't have a home. Any other thoughts? Also, is it's function necessary? If it's for emissions will it effect the overall operation or mileage etc.?

 

Thank you in advance.

[Cougar]

Looking at the picture there appears to be a screw threaded into a broken hose connection. The coil needs to be connected so a fault code isn't set in the ECU. I don't think having the device disconnected will make much difference in gas mileage.

[naru]

That solenoid sure looks like "Solenoid valve I".

The black part that turns is an air filter.

Should have 2 vacuum connections on the other side,though.

[83 GL Scooby]

Well fellas, no matter how I look at it I cannot find anything the "looks" broken. There isn't a disrupted piece of metal or plastic anywhere. I have included more photos to help you see what I'm looking at. Thank you for the help.

 

 

 

[Cougar]

The screw threaded into the plastic is one port for the vacuum line. The other port is in the middle of the plastic and would normally stick staight out the end of the solenoid. It is broken off. A very common problem due to a weak design. Those solenoids are well over 100 dollars new. Some folks have removed similair used devices from other Japanese cars to replace the bad one and at a lot lower replacement cost.

[ruparts]

Well fellas, no matter how I look at it I cannot find anything the "looks" broken. There isn't a disrupted piece of metal or plastic anywhere. I have included more photos to help you see what I'm looking at. Thank you for the help.

 

 

 

 

hi, that solinoid is definately broken, that screw is screwed into the broken nipple,, there was once a vac hose connected there, perhaps it has also been removed or capped off. these are very common to break off because the nipple is so small, if you can find another one , fix it, if not just let it go. if the hose is not close by somone has deleated it already. i am going to have my air cleaner box off tomorrow and will take a pic of how it is plumbed up. not sure if i can post it here , i'll try.

[bheinen74]

your new alternator could be bad, its not out of the question to get bad ones from parts stores.

[83 GL Scooby]

your new alternator could be bad, its not out of the question to get bad ones from parts stores.

 

Thank you but the electrical problem ended up being a ground wire that was broken up inside the dash. Oh well, the reman Alt. generates higher amperage and more voltage than the old tired stock unit anyway. Thanks for the reply!

 

hi, that solinoid is definately broken, that screw is screwed into the broken nipple,, there was once a vac hose connected there, perhaps it has also been removed or capped off. these are very common to break off because the nipple is so small, if you can find another one , fix it, if not just let it go. if the hose is not close by somone has deleated it already. i am going to have my air cleaner box off tomorrow and will take a pic of how it is plumbed up. not sure if i can post it here , i'll try.

 

Ahhh, now I understand. I can really use the pics, because there isn't a hose off anywhere. Thank you!