brus brother Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 05 Outback 104,000 miles going in to the dealer for timing belt tomorrow. Open heart surgery is over my head. I intend on having them replace the water pump and cam seals. Aside from those major issues, I would like to supply on-line priced discounted parts if items are coming out and simply require re-installation anyway. It is a pretty cool dealership and I can't see how they would give me a hard time but ya never know. So besides the fan/alternator/ps belts what other innards would you consider replacing? Idlers? Tensioners? Hopefully, this will last another 105,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 give the idlers and tensioners more precedence than the water ump. With proper coolant maintenance, the water pump should last till the next timing belt. They usually hod out to 225,000 miles on the average older ej22. Do the cam and crank seals. It will most likely not be necessary to change the oil pump, if it is not acting up as it is. Of course, my suggestions are based on how much you want to pay for parts, since the idlers/tensioner/belt set would be the most expensive of the parts. Otherwise, if the cost of parts is not an issue, now would be the time to do them if you have them ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) +1 to what miles said. EJ water pumps rarely fail, while replacing them isn't a bad idea for 105,000 reliability, they wouldn't top other things like the timing idlers/tensioners. the new style tensioners fail, that's top of the list for preventative maintenance in my experience. the idlers should be inspected and replaced as needed - the lower cogged idler is most likely to need replaced. i'd also reseal the oil pump while they're in there, it's right in front of you once the t-belt is off. doesn't require much extra work, though i'm not sure how they'd bill it. if it leaks later it's $600 timing belt labor all over again for a $5 seal, so kind of makes sense to do it now. it should be removed, rear backing plate screws tightened with lock-tite (usually one or more are loose) and then resealed for install. it's a $5 seal and $3 oring and gasket material to reseal it and 5 bolts to remove/replace. the ebay kits are nice as you get all new pulleys instead of needing to pick and choose which to replace. at your age/mileage it's really random, some sound questionable for another 105k, some are really good, doesn't seem that consistent to me. for under $200 you can get all of them replaced via ebay. if it's a "pretty cool dealer" as you say, ask them if they'll match the pricing of the online dealers. they've always done it for me for years and think nothing of it since that's what they do with other accounts, shops, and other subaru related locals. never even blinked an eye, they just click and give me the discount every time....even if it's some guy i haven't seen before and i don't have an account or anything with them, i just say every time "y'all always give me the discount"...and i get it. if you're in Weston, WV i could entertain doing the work if you want. cheaper than dealer, whatever parts you want and i can do the oil pump reseal for basically nothing. Edited January 17, 2011 by grossgary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 My waterpump failed on the interstate and I lost my engine. Don't knock the waterpump replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suba9792 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 be sure to replace your cam seals,crank seal,oil pump o-ring, with new ones from the dealer only, I have been told that some of the aftermarkets prematurely fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) My waterpump failed on the interstate and I lost my engine. Don't knock the waterpump replacement.no one is knocking it, just that it's less likely to fail than other components statistically speaking. yours being a 97 was nearly 10 years older as well, i would be more inclined to replace it just due to age. Edited January 17, 2011 by grossgary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 It is probably about due for new headgaskets, no joke. Bet they are leaking oil, again i am serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I will be surprised if the dealer allows use of walk in parts and would verify they will before buying them. What if one bites the dust after they put the belt on? Who is buying you a new valve job or engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I would be interested to know what was replaced or recommended to be replaced from the dealer...I can explain later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 oh, forgot to say that the dealers here in Iowa do not recommend to replace the idler pulleys/bearings..... I find that unresponsible for a Subaru dealer to say to not replace them. I am sure other :good" dealers would recommend it, and that is why i would never use a Iowa Subaru service center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 So what is complicating this is that my P0420 code returned. I initially tried piggybacking two anti-foulers (one drilled out) but that got me P2096 code for sensor not working. I removed the piggyback and was back to P0420. I then tried two drilled out but I'm now still getting P0420. At 6 years and 105K miles, the 8yr/80K warranty period on cats is past and Subaru only warranties their replacement cat for 12mos/12K miles. At $625 plus 1 hour for the passenger side cat, with small warranty, I am looking at Eastern Converter for $400 with a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty. Does anyone have any experience with this manufacturer or can you suggest another aftermarket? The dealer said there has been mention of bad gas in the northeast and if that is the case then I wonder how long it will be until the driver's side fails. The driver's side is in the $1300 range as it contains two cats. This car seems like it was designed to support the parts department! I am wondering if I should trade up to a newer model... With these kind of ongoing repairs for a 6 y/o car, leasing starts to seem pretty smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 On older Suby 2.5 DOHC's I've had success with seafoam. On a few cars I gave them the seafoam through a vacuum line, out another 1 or 2 k on them with no more codes. I've done the anti-fouler trick one time and it worked for me also. Again late 90's 2.5 DOHC. The Seafoam thing makes a TON of white smoke though. Dont' know if it cleans the O2 sensors of the cats - but who cares. Last I heard my ex GF was having the same exact issues (since just past warranty) on a 2006 Impreza. She kept letting the dealer clear the code blaming it on gas until it was out of warranty. Now it's past warranty the dealer wants to fix it - amazing! She's now over 100k for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 So what is complicating this is that my P0420 code returned. I initially tried piggybacking two anti-foulers (one drilled out) but that got me P2096 code for sensor not working. I removed the piggyback and was back to P0420. I then tried two drilled out but I'm now still getting P0420.At 6 years and 105K miles, the 8yr/80K warranty period on cats is past and Subaru only warranties their replacement cat for 12mos/12K miles. At $625 plus 1 hour for the passenger side cat, with small warranty, I am looking at Eastern Converter for $400 with a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty. Does anyone have any experience with this manufacturer or can you suggest another aftermarket? The dealer said there has been mention of bad gas in the northeast and if that is the case then I wonder how long it will be until the driver's side fails. The driver's side is in the $1300 range as it contains two cats. This car seems like it was designed to support the parts department! I am wondering if I should trade up to a newer model... With these kind of ongoing repairs for a 6 y/o car, leasing starts to seem pretty smart. ... I was told I needed a new cat for my '01 OB...but after reading other peoples experiences of having spent a lot of money only to find out that the PO420 shortly returned again, got me thinking...there seems to be NO magic bullet in dealing with PO420 code at least for the subi...one thing for sure is the unknown result after the repair has been done...for me it was very simple, just change the gas station .. the CEL came on once during the first 2 fill-ups at another station so the problem was not completely fixed (maybe I still had some old gas in the tank..my wife tends not to go under 1/2 a tank before she fills up again)..I immediately canceled the CEL and it has been off now for almost 1 yr....if going to a different station didn't cure the problem, I would exchange the front 02 sensor and put a fouler for the rear 02 along with a new pcv...small fixes along with getting the car properly tuned would be my first line of attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 the seafoam/gas test or attempt seems well worth it here. wonder if there's a 1 and a half length fouler adapter that would work better? long enough to work, but not so long that it's tripping the other code? i've bought mine on ebay already drilled out and ready to install. if the anti-fouler isn't fixing it then i would not replace the converter yet. folks have replaced converters only to have that code come back again. aftermarket stuff is a gamble, price and warranty seems to suggest it's good, but i've seen aftermarket stuff completely covered in rust in under a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 So, if I am relying on Seafoam to clean cat/sensors would it be advisable to remove all of the anti-foulers and get the sensor back "in the stream". There was one very small spot of anti-sieze on the sensor so I guess this complicates the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's less than 10 bucks a can. Follow the directions. My guess would be that sensor wouldn't get as well cleaned. However it's all up to you. I've still got a foot of snow on the ground so if working outside I'd just do the seafoam to see how it does. Worst case you'll need to do it again after taking the anti-fouler out. If it's convenient I'd take the anti-fouler out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAYJAY Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 on the sea-foam, i need to do the plugs and wires and valve cover gaskets yes I'm getting oil in the wells would you do it before or after the plug change ?? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 It's less than 10 bucks a can. Follow the directions. My guess would be that sensor wouldn't get as well cleaned. However it's all up to you. I've still got a foot of snow on the ground so if working outside I'd just do the seafoam to see how it does. Worst case you'll need to do it again after taking the anti-fouler out. If it's convenient I'd take the anti-fouler out. Now, here's another method of cleaning O2 sensor with Seafoam (preceded by blowtorch ) http://www.ehow.com/how_7389860_clean-automotive-o2-sensors.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 guess you found an excuse for that torch you've always wanted. no exhaust leaks at all right? there's a few real haywire issues and this is one of them, hope something works for you. are you in WV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 guess you found an excuse for that torch you've always wanted. no exhaust leaks at all right? there's a few real haywire issues and this is one of them, hope something works for you. are you in WV? Wish I was in West (by God) Virginia. I'd be over in a heartbeat. I'm in Weston, CT. We had a ridiculous 2' of snow last week and an ice storm predicted for tonight. Makes working outside problematic. Right now I have two reamed out anti-foulers in place but I show one pending 0240 code and egr not ready. I may remove all of the anti-foulers and let Subaru run a real time diagnosis to see what's kicking in and when. The suggestion of 11/2 length antifouler could also be accomplished by only opening the piggyback second antifouler only half diameter. Left as stock with only spark hole it gave the failed sensor code and opened up entirely gives the old 0240. Trial and error is in order as long as I don't need inspection until summer. Seafoam, different gas, wear aluminum foil hat while driving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 this is the first time i've heard of the anti-foulers not working, i'd be doing what you're doing and checking some things out first. that's a good idea, having subaru run their diagnostic. they've come up with a rather sophisticated process i believe for tracking it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ma Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I found some good Info. and photos for , timing belt ,oil pump.oil pan.water pump etc Beergarage.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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