Tank Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Help?! '88 GL 4x4 Wagon, SPFI: Driving to work this morning on the highway, about 75 mph. The car starts 'bucking' pretty severely, and w/in 30 seconds is dead. Oooooo, pretty red dash lights! I pull to the side of the road, turn the key, engine cranks over like mad, but no happy ending. Check things under the hood, no unusual smells, heat, nothing. Plug the fuel pump test leads together, turn the ignition to 'ON', the pump is running fine. (Maybe it sounds a bit muffled? Not sure, haven't sat in the car and listened to the pump for awhile now...) Sounds OK. About 10 minutes later, "Let's try this again!" Turn the key, VROOM, happy ending! Only make it about 3 miles before (How'd you guess?!!?) more bucking, more sputtering, OOOOOOoooo, those pretty red dash lights! Fuel filter was changed about 2500 miles ago, and then again 2000 miles ago. (Was really dirty the first time.) I'd swear it was a bad fuel pump, just from the symptoms, but I can hear the pump running. Is it still bad? Is there a clogged strainer? Conical screen thing before the pump? Jimmy Hoffa's rotting corpse in the tank? Is it the new alternator I installed LAST WEEKEND? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Check/change the filter again.Hopefully,it is bad again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 That Symptoms makes me Think about a Worn ignition Coil... So I Kindly Suggest you to Check (Carefully) if it Overheats during the Next time the Engine Shuts Down. Also I Never Heard about That Man: ... Jimmy Hoffa's rotting corpse in the tank? ... Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) After work yesterday, I drove my friend's car back down to Denver to pick up the Subaru. My car stated fine, but within 1/4 mile, it was bucking and dying. About 1 mile later, it refused to start. After maybe 15 minutes, it started up again, and we were on our way. It ran perfectly fine for 25 miles, and then more coughing and bucking, so I stopped and waited again for about 15 minutes, and then resumed the trek home. Again, about 25 miles later, there was some bucking, but I was close enough to home that I just pushed through. The gas tank is nearly empty now: I didn't want to refill early if there was maybe some bad gas in there. Should I fill it up now? Seeing how the pump is not in the tank, I can't see a need to drop the tank in the near future.... I think I'm going to hit the distributor with some electrical parts cleaner, just to make sure there's no moisture in there. Not sure what else to try. Will definitely check the coil tonight, too, thanks JesZek. Will the coil from a carbureated car work on the MPFI car? (My parts car is carb'd.) Jason Edited January 19, 2011 by Tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suberfox Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 You said that the fuel filter clogged a few times and then you said that the gas tank was close to empty. I'm thinking that the tank has sediment and or rust in it and when it gets close to empty it is picking that stuff up. I have seen this in many old cars. Not saying that this is your problem but the symptoms are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yes - crap in the tank is entirely possible. I've fought that with my '69 truck. Similar symptoms. I would be more inclined to suspect the ignitor (coil bracket) than the actual coil. Subaru coil's are pretty tough - I've never actually seen a confirmed case of one failing. Mostly I've seen aftermarket coil's fail after some idiot has thought it needed to be changed. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Debris in the tank was my 1st thought (JUST went through that with the '71 Eldorado less than 2 months ago.) In searching USMB archives before starting this thread, I came to the conclusion there is more than likely no pre-pump filter/strainer. My hesitation in getting gas is, I don't know if I'm going to have to clean out that tank soon. I would be more inclined to suspect the ignitor (coil bracket) than the actual coil. GD Also, in the archives, I came across references to this igniter, and parenthesis coil bracket. Haven't looked at it yet, but I'm presuming the igniter is formed into a bracket for the coil? Can I put the carb'd car's igniter on this car to see if that fixes the issue? Did y'all know that iPhones suck, and typing all this on one has sucked even more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The carbed car's do not have an ignitor (well - they do but it's in the distributor and entirely different). But the SPFI/MPFI/Turbo's all use the same ignitor on the coil bracket - as you surmise you have to replace the entire bracket as the ignitor is soldered to it in a way that it cannot be removed seperately without risk of damage. It's just a simple transistor that acts as an amplifier/relay for the coil ground signal from the ECU. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WASHroad Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Fuel pump, not speaking from Subaru acting up, but my '98 Jeep was running the same way. Replaced the fuel pump and no problems. One question, during the 25 miles of good running, was that flat land running were the fuel pump would have a easier time keeping up? I know new pumps are Ka-ching,, but I picked up a used one at the local P-A-P for chump change while working on my '88 GL. For under 20 bucks you should be able to get one and see if that fixes it. I don't know if you are setup to test fuel pressure, but that is were my money is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 One question, during the 25 miles of good running, was that flat land running were the fuel pump would have a easier time keeping up? I know new pumps are Ka-ching,, but I picked up a used one at the local P-A-P for chump change while working on my '88 GL. For under 20 bucks you should be able to get one and see if that fixes it. I don't know if you are setup to test fuel pressure, but that is were my money is. No, it's a fairly hilly drive. I-25 runs along the front range of the Rocky Mountains here in Colorado. Also, the "local" Pull-And-Pay is about 70 miles away. I'm there frequently (was there the day before the damn car died), but won't be again until either next weekend or the weekend after. The Tank has become my daily driver, so I was trying to get it worked out before then. I have a '90 Mustang, but it's the 2nd worst vehicle I've ever driven in the snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 I've gotten a lot of suggestions to check the igniter/ignitor (apparently it's spelled both ways). I've taken it out of the car, but can't find a NEW replacement. I won't be at the junkyard again for a week or two, so I was checking around for a brand new one. Even the local Subaru dealership didn't know what it was. Nice. They said if I order a new coil from them, it may come with the ignitor, but they didn't know for sure, and they couldn't get one in until Thursday, and wouldn't order it unless I paid for it up front. I didn't have an extra $110 to spend. (Another LONG story....) BUT (and GD, you may remember this..) I just replaced the alternator last week. The internal regulator had taken a dive, and the dash meter was PEGGED way over 18. I had the brightest dash lights and clock, and the FASTEST rear-wiper you've ever seen. I've been thinking that certainly could have had an impact on the ignitor. Anyway, back to the task at hand....anyone know where to get a replacement ignitor BESIDES a junkyard? Thanks again gang... Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobenthusiast Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I know you're looking at the ignitor right now, but I will also suggest looking at your fuel filter. We've had vehicles that go through several filters before the tank is cleaned out, one truck needed a fuel filter every 500 miles for about 3000 miles. Just take out the old one and try to blow through it (quick and easy test) before you buy a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) The trouble you are having is a classic description of a bad fuel pump. Just as you first suspected and others here have stated. Try changing the filter first but if that doesn't work replace the pump. The same thing happened on my '88 GL-10. Going up a good hill it would buck due to lack of fuel. After some time the pump finally died while driving on the road. One of the very few times the car left me stranded on the road. After a new pump was put in going up the same hill was no problem. Edited January 23, 2011 by Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobywagon Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 This is kind of a long shot, but I did have it happen to me. My car exhibited EXACTLY the same symptoms that you describe. It would drive fine for a while, and then buck like crazy and then die. Wait a few, try again, no problem. Wash, rinse, repeat. Drove me absolutely BATTY for a couple of weeks. Finally tracked it down to a bad electrical connection at the injector (SPFI car). I found that the injector itself was getting really hot. What I THINK was happening was that the coil in the injector was getting hot and drawing more and more current. Eventually, the output transistors in the ECU couldn't supply enough current to fire the injector and the car would die. Swapped the injector and the problem went away until the ECU died about 3-4 months later. LIke I said...kind of a long shot. I've never seen that before or since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Wow - I can't beleive the people at the dealer are that uninformed. Even EJ's have ignitor's..... At any rate you wouldn't like the price of a new one - they are VERY expensive for some reason. Just find a used one to try - they don't fail real often. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostbrat Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I would reply and help some but would need to run my advice through the all knowing great one. Elmo Shawn w.!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 UPDATE: The Tank is still dead. --Fuel pressure is +/- 30. --Engine Codes: 35, Ever-present 14, Something about irregular injector output? This is a new one. I got a ride to Denver (closest Pull-&-Pay) on Friday, but only had time to go to one yard. Best ignitor I found was on a car w/ 188K miles and a brand new alternator. :-\ Hoping they didn't have the same issue I had, I brought it home and put it in. The car started and ran for 10 seconds before dying. Started again and ran for 5 seconds before dying. Went BACK down over the weekend and got TWO more coil/ignitor combos. One from a CLEAN '88 sedan w/ 84,000 miles. GOD I wish they would sell me that car! (I did grab the fuel pump too.) Came back Monday and installed the low-mileage ignitor & coil. Started and ran for 5 seconds, then died. I'm not sure what I'll do next. Maybe replace the injector? It's -7 degrees (-15 w/ the windchill), roads are icy, and I miss my rusted-out, spray-painted, P.O.S Subaru! I'm going through withdrawal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Could definately be a fuel pressure issue. The fuel pressure should be about 21 to 23 psi. You can T into the line with any pressure gauge (0 to 100 psi would be a good choise) and get a reading. See what it's doing when it starts, etc. Maybe you'll see the pressure drop off - that would likely indicate a clog in the tank, etc. I would discount the idea that the ignitors are all bad - but now you have spares :-p. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Could definately be a fuel pressure issue. The fuel pressure should be about 21 to 23 psi. I'll test it again when it's not so friggin cold out, and I get another gauge. Mine was a hand-me-down from my grandpa, and was used in WWII. It COULD be a bit inaccurate. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Replacing the injector may be worthwhile.That code 14 came from some type of injector or circuit fault. Make sure one side has power.Test light on the other side should pulse when the motor is cranked. Test injector resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I was thinking the same thing Naru. There may be a power issue with the injector circuit. It sure sounds like one going from the comments about the engine working for a bit and then cutting out. Checking the fusible link connections may be a good thing to do. It would be interesting to see if spraying some starter fluid into the intake before the engine dies keeps the engine running. This would prove there is a fuel delivery problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 It's ALIVE! Thank you, thank you, to all. And what was the problem? This is kind of a long shot, but I did have it happen to me. My car exhibited EXACTLY the same symptoms that you describe... Finally tracked it down to a bad electrical connection at the injector (SPFI car)....Swapped the injector and the problem went away until the ECU died about 3-4 months later. LIke I said...kind of a long shot. I've never seen that before or since. It ran fine on carb cleaner. I'd spray some into the throttle body, and keep it running for 15 seconds or so, and then the injector would "wake up" and take over, but not for long. It wouldn't taper off, it would just quit. I headed back to the junkyard where (last week) I'd found a NICE '88 sedan w/ only 89,000 miles on it. Popped in the new injector and we're back in business. Just in time for the snow to clear up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Great news. Thanks for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny88GL Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I would have been inclined ot fill the tank up as soon as possible if i suspected bad gas/sediment and was away from home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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