Scotty1419 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Hi guys, my 98 legacy gt is giving me a really hard time and i cant seem to figure it out for the life of me.. The car is running terrible.. Its just dont have any power.. it will barely climb hills.. the engines all shaky.. good compression on all 4.. I have had it at a subby mechanic for a while and he tried all the obvious and some not so obvious.. spark plugs wires coilpack 02 sensors cam sensors crank sensors ecu computer fuel injectors fuel filter. timing was dead on. he even put an intake on it.. a fuel pump.. drained the fuel put new in .bypassed the catalytic converter.. only codes are random misfire codes.. it has got me pulling my hair out.. it just wont run right!!! if anyone has any ideas of what it might be please let me know!! thanks Scott Edited June 24, 2011 by Scotty1419 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 PM coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Too new to PM. Email me at davebugs at yahoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 email sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I just had this same problem with an EJ25D (which is what your GT has unless it's been swapped to a 2.2). Turned out the intake cam pulley bolt was not tightened enough when the owner did the head gaskets (himself) and this resulted in the cam pulley bouncing on the cam nose and gougeing a nice L-shaped trench out of the keyway. The intake valve timing on the passenger side was advanced by about 3 belt teeth. Due to the nature of the failure the compression test showed high (but otherwise ok - was around 200 psi where it should have been about 185). The giveaway after many hours of diagnostics was that the two passenger side cylinders had compression that was too high and was *the same* higher number for both cylinders - thus leading me to the valve timing and leading me to pull off the belt and inspect. It's simple process of elimination and sometimes it takes time and some hand-wringing and head slapping to get there - your mechanic gave up too easily. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 title says 2.2...i didn't even see it until i hit reply.... man what a laundry list of parts, that's crazy. i'd be looking at timing or valves too. *exactly* what check engine light codes are you getting? and exactly what were the compression readings. if that many things have already been replaced we need specifics. at this point i'd swap in another MAF and igniter since they're so easy. get used ones, new are insanely expensive and not worth a crap shoot. someone on here will have them (i've got a few - but no time to gather/ship right now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) thanks for replying.. yes the car has the 2.2 swap done to it. it jumped time and bent the valves in my stock 2.5. thanks for the suggestion on the MAF and Ignitor i will look into getting those parts to try on it.. the timing was dead on. also he said the compression was around 140 on all 4. and he said they were just random missfire codes he didnt specify which ones. what i dont understand is why wont it throw any codes if its a sensor of some sort isnt that what they are for? to throw codes if they go bad? Edited June 24, 2011 by Scotty1419 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 what i dont understand is why wont it throw any codes if its a sensor of some sort isnt that what they are for? to throw codes if they go bad? in theory, yes that's what they are there for. but in reality most, if not all, of the sensors in these cars, 90s, can get old , weak, and tired, not perform correctly, and yet not throw a code. it makes for a lot of fun trying to find the cause of a problem. i suspect newer models are better about this but i don't know. one can only hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 oxygen sensor? I had a friend last month complain about the same stuff to me.. called me in a panic.. however she had a CEL How about checking out the oxygen sensor? her car was doing the same stuff lack of power when going on hills and she had a misfire on two cylinders (can't remember which at the moment) but after she did her plugs, knock sensor and oxygen sensor she was good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 well i just ordered a knock sensor on ebay going to give that a try.. does anyone know if the grade of the sensor is that important? i only paid 22$ for the sensor and i know its not a OE subaru part.. but i didnt want to pay an arm and a leg if this isnt whats wrong with it. man i hate this crapshoot i wish it would just give me a code and tell me what the hell is wrong with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 geeez.. did you have a code for a knock sensor???? Sounds like you are blindly just buying parts which is not a good thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 nope just random missfire codes.. but i dont know what else to do but throw parts at it.. i dont know much about these newer cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Have you verified that the valve timing is correct and that the cam pulleys have not moved on the nose of the cams? Checking the timing marks is not sufficient because those will not be out of alignment unless the belt slips. The problem that I related in my earlier post was that the cam sprocket had moved on the cam itself - the belt was perfectly aligned and a check of the timing marks shows nothing. You actually have to tear it down. The ONLY problem the ECU could detect was the misfire. Also have you checked for a bad battery or engine ground? Grounding issues can cause all kinds of problems. I just got a Legacy where the engine was torn completely apart by an amature looking for "sensor" problems when the real issue was an almost completely severed ground cable that couldn't be seen because it was all inside the insulation. Sometimes you really have to dig for this stuff - but it's always something that you assumed was a constant when you started looking - like the valve timing. Your mechanic probably looked at the timing marks, found them to be correct, and dismissed that as being a potential problem. Now that you can't find the problem anywhere else it's time to revisit those things you took for granted at the begining of your search. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Air leak after the air flow meter?... Had this one stump me awhile back, found the secondary air filter (99 Forester) to have the foam seal folded over causing an air leak. Fuel Trim readings were waaaayyyy rich, In the 30% range. No power up hills, kinda drove alright around town, sluggish at highway speeds... Nothing I changed made a difference. O2, MAF, MAP, coil, plugs, RO2. After these, I decided, as GD said, to go back and recheck, "back to basics" if you will. If no problem found in the intake, perhaps check fuel pressure and fuel pressure regulator operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Have you verified that the valve timing is correct and that the cam pulleys have not moved on the nose of the cams? Checking the timing marks is not sufficient because those will not be out of alignment unless the belt slips. The problem that I related in my earlier post was that the cam sprocket had moved on the cam itself - the belt was perfectly aligned and a check of the timing marks shows nothing. You actually have to tear it down. The ONLY problem the ECU could detect was the misfire. Also have you checked for a bad battery or engine ground? Grounding issues can cause all kinds of problems. I just got a Legacy where the engine was torn completely apart by an amature looking for "sensor" problems when the real issue was an almost completely severed ground cable that couldn't be seen because it was all inside the insulation. Sometimes you really have to dig for this stuff - but it's always something that you assumed was a constant when you started looking - like the valve timing. Your mechanic probably looked at the timing marks, found them to be correct, and dismissed that as being a potential problem. Now that you can't find the problem anywhere else it's time to revisit those things you took for granted at the begining of your search. GD Thank you for your help, I think your right its something we over looked at the beggining and i need to go back.. How exactly would i check if the cam sprocket moved on the pulley? remove the pulley? i just had all that apart and verified that the timing marks was correct so i know that is right. I have checked my battery and it has 12.56 volts. also i cleaned the 4 screws that are grounded to the struts area on passenger and driver side. is there any other engine grounds that i missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Air leak after the air flow meter?... Had this one stump me awhile back, found the secondary air filter (99 Forester) to have the foam seal folded over causing an air leak. Fuel Trim readings were waaaayyyy rich, In the 30% range. No power up hills, kinda drove alright around town, sluggish at highway speeds... Nothing I changed made a difference. O2, MAF, MAP, coil, plugs, RO2. After these, I decided, as GD said, to go back and recheck, "back to basics" if you will. If no problem found in the intake, perhaps check fuel pressure and fuel pressure regulator operation. thanks for the help.. My fuel trim reading are in the -30% range also.. and i had a maf code.. however i replaced the maf sensor with a new one and nothing. my obd2 reader doesnt tell me fuel pressure i guess i would need a gauge or something? but yea my car is doing the exact same thing yours was doing... plugs are fouling up completely black and smell like fuel.. put like 6 sets of plugs in it already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95legwagon Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 i am wondering if a 2.5l ecu instead of a 2.2l ecu is being used........ correct me if im wrong but i believe that if it WOULD run on the wrong ecu that it would run terrible and throw codes...... do you know if they put in the correct engine computer? dont know how you would verify that but im sure someone here would have an idea based on the numbers on the actual ecu itself.......... hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 i am wondering if a 2.5l ecu instead of a 2.2l ecu is being used........ correct me if im wrong but i believe that if it WOULD run on the wrong ecu that it would run terrible and throw codes...... do you know if they put in the correct engine computer? dont know how you would verify that but im sure someone here would have an idea based on the numbers on the actual ecu itself.......... hope this helps! I had originally thought that and asked the mechanic he said he used the ecu that came out of the car with the 2.2 engine that he put in mine. and he also tried swapping that ecu with another 2.2 when i brought it to him with the missfires to see if that would fix it but it was the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95legwagon Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 ok well thats sounds good but also wondering if the wiring harness's are the same........ i dont believe they are but im probably wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I had originally thought that and asked the mechanic he said he used the ecu that came out of the car with the 2.2 engine that he put in mine. and he also tried swapping that ecu with another 2.2 when i brought it to him with the missfires to see if that would fix it but it was the same. i don't remmeber the whole story, but the 2.2L ecu will give you a CEL. the ecu needs to match the wiring harness in the car. tons of ej22 swaps have been done with NO ecu swap. it probably will not cause the no power problems you have, but it will throw phantom codes causing you to look in the WRONG in the wrong place for solutions. put the ej25 ECU back in the car. it is easy, takes 15 minutes. then pull the timing covers off of the cam sprockets and double check the timing. this sounds like the timing is off. i know this has been a long and involved problem, but it sounds like a timing problem. or maybe s vacuum hose problem. fix the ecu / CEL problem by installing the original ECU and then see what issues you have. i am not lying to you. this is true. replace the ECU with the one that came in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 okay. i will call him tomorrow and see if i can get my old ecu back... that does make sense though.. because im getting a maf sensor code and a cam position sensor code and they are both fine.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 I made/uploaded 2 videos to you tube to show what my car is doing.. The picture isn't the greatest and its a little shaky but i showed some of the stuff on my scanner like air flow and timing advance and stuff, you just have to pause it to see it. If anyone has any thoughts/suggestions id appreciate it. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akovell Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Greetings, members. I have a similar problem with my 99' wagon. The car is running very rough, poor acceleration, difficulty on uphills - I need to downshift to lower gear (it's a 5-spd). The codes thrown out are 301-304 (misfiring on all 4 cylinders), 325 (knock sensor), 420 (inefficient catalytic converter). I just replaced the knock sensor - no change at all ($80 down the drain). What now I wonder. Converter is the most expensive item - will be the last thing I'd tackle. The car has 266K miles on it and has been OK until about three - four months ago when the drivability started to go down. Any recommendations are welcome. Thanks, Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty1419 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Hey, to test your cat converter I just take out the 2 bolts in the flange before your converter and seperate the pipe from the converter and start it up. it will be really loud but if the car runs right then thats your problem. Also make sure you properly installed your knock sensor. heres a link to a good informative write up on how to porperly do it. --> http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=120610 Edited August 22, 2011 by Scotty1419 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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