el_freddo Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 G'day all, Subaru in question: 1988 L series station wagon 4wd with EJ22, 3 inch lift and discs all round. I bounce between the standard 23 inch tyre and the 27s for offroading. She's also my pack mule for moving our gear around, something she was meant to be doing next week. Anyway, here's the issue(s) I've got, apart from just welding them up, anyone got an idea as to how I could strengthen these areas, the front in particular? Rear RHS front mount for the rear K frame: Identical cracks on the LHS: The last fix on the plate that's usually welded to the firewall where the radius rod and gearbox crossmember plate mounts to, it failed obviously: And the rest of that plate peeling off the firewall: Plan is to weld all cracks up and close the gap in the radius rod mounting plate and stitch weld it back onto the firewall. I'm hoping this will be strong enough to keep her going for some time, but I also want to brace all of these areas, anyone got any ideas of how to go about it or have anything you can share that's worked for you? I don't know exactly how these have occured, I did get her airborne under brakes 2 months ago which was when I put the bolt in to hold that plate to the firewall. Other than that I look after her offroad but do get out on some pretty serious tracks... The airborne event was over the top of a hill on a dirt road that had recently been graded, a slight rise in the decent of the hill sent me airborne as the road dropped away... Any help or ideas short of getting another shell are welcomed. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPGsuperchargedBrumby Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 you could try welding it all up then welding (load spreading) plates over the problem areas to stengthen them...the rears look pretty straight forward....the front one will take a bit of creative hammer work to shape it to come over the bulge in the original plate. i'd use 1/8" plate or something similar to try spread the load over a greater area. having said that...i'm impressed, i have seen subaru's take a hell of a beating offroad and have never seen cracks like that without the veihcle being pretty much "written off" by whatever event/jump/fairly serious cliff caused the damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Thanks LPGsuperchargedbrumby for your suggestion. We didn't go the whole hog with the plating but will keep that in the back of my mind for future reference if I feel the need. This is what happened, a bit of a re-cap for some background info on the situation: Basically I found some substantial damage under Ruby Scoo. It had me quite worried about her future. It started out when Matt (nachaluva on Ausubaru.com) found some cracks when checking out Ruby's undercarriage on our Walhalla 4wd trip: I wasn't happy and thought it may have been a large pot hole or two that did the damage but really had no idea. So we watched these cracks and continued on our way. They didn't move which was great. Then when I was putting the little boots back on after enjoying a week of 27 inch rolling goodness I found that there were identical cracks on the left hand side. Not good. Then I thought I'd check out the repair my uncle and I did on the LHS radius rod/gearbox x member mounting bracket, specifically that plate that is welded to the firewall that has two of the three captive nuts for the RR/GCM mounting plate. It had developed a crack so we put a bolt on it to hold it back on the firewall. All good. Then I found this to my horror: I went a bit funny shortly after this. So I organised to drive it home ~400km off a large mountain with a twisty road and get it welded up at my best mate's joint. We had a closer look and what I found out was that it wasn't the plate moving away from the fire wall, it was the firewall that had moved from the plate, and to balance things up the plate then pulled all the spot welds to be where it naturally was from the factory. Crazy I know. I had previously thought that the torque twisting of the EJ in low range with the 27's and some tough 4wd'n was responsible for the plate moving away from the firewall. But once I found out it was the other way around it was clear to me that this was done pre-season when I was 4wd'n with Richie and Roger below dinner plane area. We had a "rally section" where we gave our 4wds a fair flogging, Ruby Scoo out front being the lighter unit. I've been driving all season with this un-ware of what hideous mess was lurking under the bonnet. A freshly graded road sometimes gives large ripples that bounces the front then the rear of the car. I was coming over a hill on the throttle, noticed the road started to curve to the left so I started braking with the hill dropping away quickly - too fast on a road I didn't know. I then hit one of these ripple sections which put the car airborne, nothing spectacular, just enough for me to slow the wheel speed down lower than the airborne vehicle speed which had the front end landing with an almighty BANG! It really felt like my captive nuts were cactus on the radius rod plate and that everything there had moved about an inch backwards. This is where I think the firewall was moved, captive nuts still look good and are holding up well. So after a couple of rums, a few hours and some photos of Jimmy doing his best upside down Ruby Scoo now has a new lease on life and a few scars. Here's some pics of the progress of work: Rear right being welded: This is the LHS floor that I hammered out with a block of wood and BFH, once that was done everything lined up perfect under the bonnet. I was on fire watch while we welded this section from below. The holes (3) are the spot welds that were pulled out, you can clearly see one in this pic, the dark little circle: The front LHS being welded: Not the prettiest welding, but being upside down while doing it using a Mig I wasn't expecting a great looking weld: Rear left all welded up, ground back and sprayed against rust: Very happy with the finished product - Ruby Scoo now feels very tight on the road and doesn't float around which I thought was a worn component on the front end, so I wasn't really worried about it. Now to monitor the whole thing and make sure it doesn't happen again or start to crack again. Needless to say I'll be taking it easier on unknown roads to avoid the same situation. HUGE shout out to Jimmy for his help and the use of his vast facilities! His hoist really helped out with the job, that thing is an amazing piece of kit! And good times had catching up as well - been too long between drinks for us! Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Needs plate steel for structural reinforcement. The welds will be more brittle than the surrounding material and may crack again in the same spot or right next to it. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPGsuperchargedBrumby Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 ..............Damn Seagulls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 ..............Damn Seagulls Yeah we call it chicken ************ over here Thanks GD. As I've said I'll keep an eye on it and will be considering the plating later. Ultimately she'd be gutted and put on a rotisserie so that the welding can be done with the aid of gravity. But I doubt that will be happening. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I Was about to say This: Needs plate steel for structural reinforcement. The welds will be more brittle than the surrounding material and may crack again in the same spot or right next to it. GD So I Agree with GD, I've done that kind of Repairs before and it Must have a Reinforcement Plate completely Welded, otherwise it will crack easily. Good Luck! Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 I would link the lift blocks together , weld bars between , which will cause less stress on captive nuts, in this picture looks like bottom of bolt has no support , this will also cause more stress , would like to see pictures of lift blocks Scott from SJRLIFT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Needs plate steel for structural reinforcement. The welds will be more brittle than the surrounding material and may crack again in the same spot or right next to it. ANd you were totally right mate! It did just that, cracked around the welding we did. would like to see pictures of lift blocks Can do, I'll have to get some organised. I too feel that I need to make up some sort of C bracket to hold that bolt better. But with that said, being airborne under brakes in the first place is what needs to be avoided! An update - a long time coming! The damaged plate, ripped captive nut (while trying to remove the bolt the nut let go, I wasn't about to cut the bolt!) Plate removed: New panel in footwell to help with strength. Same done on driver's side too: Lining up the new plate - "stolen" from a parts bomb I've got out the back: Supportive plates welded in on both sides, the rusted area cut and new section welded in. Trophy photo: Went nuts on some more welding to help stiffen up the body, what they tell you about stitch welding the seams is a big job - well, they're spot on the money! This was an important day - getting it off the rotisserie: Then the slow process of putting her back together began. I fixed up a few things along the way and added some extended braided brake lines, well worth the coin and effort with this: I relocated some wiring - that created some more headaches. So far the only thing wrong is my Tacho doesn't work Dash in, this too was a big step! Out of the shed for the first time in about 5 months, hanging out with the new L "sheldon" that my sister now drives: Running and ready to have the brakes bled: This was a great moment: And now with the rear bar installed but not finished yet - I've got some extra panel work to add to it as well as some rear lights then a lick of paint too, this is in our high country, which pails in comparison to your high country! Mt Feathertop - probably the most typical looking mountain we've got in Australia: Mt Buffalo in the distance: This work was started in November 2011. I drove her out of the shed on the 4th of May 2012. There were a lot of other things that kept getting in the way of working on the project - christmas, new year, other little projects, searching for a job, the list goes on. I'm very happy that I got there in the end! Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Great Work Bennie, Well Done! I've noticed in this Photo: ... ... That your Subie has a Non-L Series Subaru e-Brake Handle. Since I'm Searching for alternatives to do a Rear e-Brake retrofit on my BumbleBeast, could I Ask you More info about the e-Brake setup you have... is that a Rear e-Brake? Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) I had to do the exact same repair on my Loyale. We sledgehammered the firewall and trans tunnel back down, welded it where it had torn from the trans tunnel, and then put down a 1/8" plate with bolts sandwiching it to the damaged area and welded that down too. This damage is caused by not having the lift blocks on the radius arm mount linked together. I welded a flat tab out from the radius arm mount to the top of the lower lift block so it was captured on both ends and a 3/8" thick x 2.5" tall plate between the two leading lift bocks. I had the exact same damage in the rear, but mine was worse and compounded by rust. The way mine was lifted was with a block under the crossmember mount and an equal block under the two mount reinforcement plate bolts. I replaced the plate and the two hole block with a welded sheetmetal box that surrounded the crossmember bushing and tapered down to the two bolts in the front. That helped a lot. I still had problems with all the rear crossmember mounting points captured nuts cracking out of the body. I'd weld the nuts to big washers and then weld the washers to the body to fix those. The individual block lifts increase the leverage the suspension componants have on the body. Add in the abuse of offroading and the body will fail. Tie the lift blocks together with solid brace material and add in diagonal bracing bracing where you can to keep suspension parts from moving forward to back. I would take pictures to show you what I'm talking about but I'm 2,500 miles away from the box of lift parts saved from that car before I junked it. Edited May 17, 2012 by WoodsWagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 The individual block lifts increase the leverage the suspension componants have on the body. Add in the abuse of offroading and the body will fail. Tie the lift blocks together with solid brace material and add in diagonal bracing bracing where you can to keep suspension parts from moving forward to back. I would take pictures to show you what I'm talking about but I'm 2,500 miles away from the box of lift parts saved from that car before I junked it. I totally agree with what you're saying - I want to build the radius rod plate lift blocks into one unit and the rear section with the cracking needs another brace to the bolt that holds the front of the K frame to the body. My rear crossmember lift blocks are in good shape and I'd leave these as they are. Things to do! Loyale 2.7 Turbo: The hand brake (e brake as you know it) is actually from the MY models before the L series came out. The reason for this is that I'm using the same centre console for the power window switches, the only way to get the hand brake to work properly was to keep the matching hand brake. It still actuates on the front brakes, so would be no help to you. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 ...Loyale 2.7 Turbo: The hand brake (e brake as you know it) is actually from the MY models before the L series came out. ... It still actuates on the front brakes, so would be no help to you. ... Thank you for your Kind Answer. Best Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 My rear crossmember lift blocks are in good shape and I'd leave these as they are. Things to do! I wouldn't agree with you there, you're getting fatigue cracks back there because the block is moving too much. I would remove the block and check the captured nut beneath it for more cracking. Then figure out a way to stop it from flexing. Adding in a diagonal that links the head of the bolt down to those two bolts at the rear of the floorpan will help. I built a box channel that enclosed the bushing area of the crossmember and had a sloped face that went down to the two bolts on the rear of the floorpan. It had flanges sticking up where it bolted down to reinforce it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'subaru Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hey Bennie, Im wondering if its not the stance of your wagon after your rear spring mods. As an example when I was a kid we used to jack up the rear end of our 60's chevys ( seems stupid now but in the early 70's it was the thing to do ) and every impala I jacked up developed cracks on the rear quarter panels. Just a thought, besides you keeping a maximum of no more than 2 feet of air under your wagon:grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 cool thread..nice work Bennie, great shots..ya put the steering wheel on the wrong side but.. now we all want a rotisserie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 cool thread..nice work Bennie, great shots..ya put the steering wheel on the wrong side but.. Nah you've got that wrong mate - my steering wheel is one the RIGHT side now we all want a rotisserie The rotisserie is awesome, but I found out last night when finally wiping the inside of the windscreen clean that you need to cover the windscreen from the inside when you're welding upside down - I've got a pot load of little welding spots in the glass at the top of the windscreen that catch on what ever you use to clean the windscreen with. That's my tip. Rotisseries are awesome though if you're prepared to go the whole hog and to what's required to gut and reassemble your vehicle. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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