Is this a rear main seal leak?

[AdventureSubaru]

Replacing the trans on a 2000 Legacy Outback. Had the new trans lined up and ready to start hoisting and realized I was getting ahead of myself. The car loses about 1 1/2 quarts between oil changes. (No big deal for a Subaru well over 200k) Looked at the flywheel and this is what I saw.

 

 

Am I correct in thinking this is a light rear main seal leak? And if so, where are the best places to get a replacement? I'm sure Autozone etc. have them but wasn't sure if this is one of those things to go Subaru only or not.

[Caboobaroo]

That or the separater plate to the right of it which are known for leaking on high mileaged engines.

[Fairtax4me]

Doubtful. Possibly a weeper but the grey plate on the right of that pic (passenger side of the engine) is the most likely culprit for engine oil leaks in the bell housing.

If that one is metal you can remove it and reseal it, or buy a new plate kit (updated design) from a dealer for about $30. Comes with a new plate and 6 new screws.

There is also an O-ring on the other side that is under the diamond shaped cover. They dry out and leak pretty bad when they get old. Costs like $1.50 at the dealer.

 

Rear main, if you must replace it, get it from the dealer. Be sure to clean the end of the crankshaft well before installing the new seal, and coat it with plenty of fresh oil. PAY ATTENTION to how deep the original seal is driven into the block, make sure you get the new seal to EXACTLY THE SAME DEPTH. Too deep and the oil will not drain from behind the seal properly, not deep enough the seal will leak.

[bheinen74]

Doubtful. Possibly a weeper but the grey plate on the right of that pic (passenger side of the engine) is the most likely culprit for engine oil leaks in the bell housing.

If that one is metal you can remove it and reseal it, or buy a new plate kit (updated design) from a dealer for about $30. Comes with a new plate and 6 new screws.

There is also an O-ring on the other side that is under the diamond shaped cover. They dry out and leak pretty bad when they get old. Costs like $1.50 at the dealer.

 

Rear main, if you must replace it, get it from the dealer. Be sure to clean the end of the crankshaft well before installing the new seal, and coat it with plenty of fresh oil. PAY ATTENTION to how deep the original seal is driven into the block, make sure you get the new seal to EXACTLY THE SAME DEPTH. Too deep and the oil will not drain from behind the seal properly, not deep enough the seal will leak.

 

Agree, rear main leave it alone. change the rear separater cover to the right. engine spin is pulling the oil dripping off it, and putting it where you see the accumulation area center bottom.

[nipper]

Yup seperator plate. Don't mess with the rear main.

[GeneralDisorder]

I replace rear mains all the time and never have a problem. I've built more EJ engines than most people on here have resealed and you don't really get a choice to "leave it" when you are assembling a newly machined block.

 

It's true that the factory rear main is Viton and they rarely fail. But I've seen plenty that were improperly installed or had been changed to aftermarket junk at some point in the past - making replacment a neccessity. You have to make a judgement call but don't just decide to leave it alone without inspecting it. That's foolish. If you have to replace it do it right - buy or make a proper seal driver (ABS drain cleanout and a cap works well - just size it up at Home Depot) and drive it in EVENLY and FLUSH with the case.

 

From the picture it does appear that the seperator plate is a worse problem than the rear main. But check it anyway.

 

GD

[AdventureSubaru]

Best to get a new separator plate from subaru? Anyone else carry them?

[bheinen74]

hard to tell, my eye is cheers. looks like you got a metal plate. metal can be sealed again with sealant and be good. If you have plastic plate, then no you throw it away to the trash, then get a metal one.

 

plastic-throw a way

metal - good to reuse

 

reason i say you have metal is cause all the plastic crap i saw in yellow.

 

I hate plastic crap.

[bstone]

Best to get a new separator plate from subaru? Anyone else carry them?

 

Definitely from Subaru. The new plate is aluminum, not cheap plastic. Like GD says you might consider replacing the rear main seal, but follow his instructions very closely.

[GeneralDisorder]

You have a metal seperator. Reseal it with RTV or anaerobic sealant.

 

GD

[johnceggleston]

it looks like the pic shows a plastic separator, the flat head ''stove type'' bolts are recessed and the top of the head is flush with the plate. the new metal plates have round head bolts that are not recessed.

[AdventureSubaru]

pretty sure mine is plastic. I'll go out and double check. I called the dealer this morning. The parts guy had no idea what I was talking about. Anyone have a part number?

[davebugs]

I believ ehtey call it "oil seperator plate", some call it the "baffle plate".

[Gloyale]

I replace rear mains all the time and never have a problem. I've built more EJ engines than most people on here have resealed and you don't really get a choice to "leave it" when you are assembling a newly machined block.

 

 

GD

 

Assmebling fresh case halves, yes, use a new one.

 

But not in cases where "the engines out so I might as well"

 

if it's not leaking......I leave it alone.

 

If I do HAVE to press one in to an assembled block, I use a 3" ABS end cap(about 3.5" in OD) as a driver.

[AdventureSubaru]

Okay, found a dealer that had the plate. Got the plate and bolts. Heading to Autozone soon for some trans fluid and silicone. Any recommendations on which silicone would be best for the separator plate? Also, how best to get the existing screws/bolts out. Phillips head gives me nightmares.

Edited January 25, 2012 by AdventureSubaru

[davebugs]

Ultra Grey is the "one size fits all" for Subaru's for me.

 

I'd but other sealants would work too.

[GeneralDisorder]

YOU HAVE A FACTORY ALUMINIUM PLATE. RESEAL IT!

 

251's DO NOT have plastic plates - at any rate if it did it would be BLACK which is the color of the plastic plates on 96 to 99 25D's. Cripes! You people are making him buy junk he doesn't need.

 

What you WILL need is an impact screwdriver and a #3 phillips bit to get the bolts loose. Or drill the heads off and replace them.

 

GD

Edited January 26, 2012 by GeneralDisorder

[GeneralDisorder]

Assmebling fresh case halves, yes, use a new one.

 

But not in cases where "the engines out so I might as well"

 

As I said - if it's leaking or has been replaced with a cockeyed aftermarket peice of crap - then I replace them. But INSPECT before determining. If you don't look at it you can't tell. Telling people to "NEVER touch" one is silly and ignorant.

 

GD

[Fairtax4me]

Definitely from Subaru. The new plate is aluminum, not cheap plastic. Like GD says you might consider replacing the rear main seal, but follow his instructions very closely.

 

The new plate is stamped galvanized steel.

 

I use either anaerobic sealer or ultra grey, whichever is closest when I reach in my tool box.

 

An impact screwdriver is a must. The heads on the screws will strip before you get them loose with a regular screwdriver.

[notliving]

I'm gonna revive this thread a little bit since i don't want to clutter up the board with new threads.

 

I just pulled my engine and when I removed the flywheel this is what it looks like.

 

 

 

So I'm definitely going to get the updated seperator plate but what say the USMB about the rear main seal. It has seepage but with all the don't touch it posts out there I'm kinda leary about replacing it.

 

I think it may have been replaced before since its a NSK seal but maybe those were used by Subaru? Should i leave it alone or go ahead and replace it and hope for the best?

 

 

[Fairtax4me]

Hard to say, it looks like an original, but it also kinda looks crooked( but that may just be a shadow. )

 

Up to you.

I'd probably replace it, but I've done several and am comfortable with the idea. I also have tools to remove the old seal without scratching the crank.

 

Make sure to replace the O-ring under the access cover of the left.

[johnceggleston]

i always advise ''do not replace'', since rookies always assume an oil leak on the rear of the block is the rear main.

and on subarus that is usually not the case.

but in this case it looks like it needs to go.

 

follow GDs advice above ad you should be good.

not an impossible job, just not required very often.

[notliving]

After further inspection it is the original. I thought it had NSK on it but it was NOK.

 

Anyway I went over to the local Suby dealer today and got the separator plate and the rear main seal. I also took one of the head gaskets I bought (not made by Subaru) to compare it to the real deal and the parts monkey said he couldn't help me without my VIN?  So here is a pic of one of the head gaskets I bought. They are Beck Arnley brand and the package they came in said made in Japan.

 

 

 

They are all metal with a few thin layers and a main thick layer in the middle. Is there a way to tell just by looking at them if they are the corrected gaskets?

[MilesFox]

I replace rear mains all the time and never have a problem. I've built more EJ engines than most people on here have resealed and you don't really get a choice to "leave it" when you are assembling a newly machined block.

 

It

 

GD

 

This consensus is mainly aimed at rookies or do-it-yourselfers for 1, usually a presumed leak is more likely the separator plate, and 2, replacing the rear main seal can fail if not seated properly, or if using a cheap brand.

 

The rear main should be flush with the case, but it is possible to drive it in farther than the face and bottom it out, or install crooked. Yours looks like it may seep a little, which any seal does, and the accumulation on the bottom appears to come from the bottom of the separator plate.

 

Even in the 2nd picture of the dirtier rear main seal, I would be fine with leaving it be if i was doing something like the clutch, but am not into a whole reseal. My discretion to do so would be based on if the seal was still pliable, but if it was hard and cracked, i would replace it. Really it's no big deal to go ahead and replace it if you are experienced with it, seat it properly, and use an NOK seal made in japan and not a national seal made in mexico.

 

I guess the moral of the story is it is up to your discretion based on how much labor and parts you want to be into.

 

But again, there are horrible stories of the seal just popping out from their own oil pressure if not installed properly. It has never happened to me with my backyard garage automotive experience (%90 of that being old subarus), but it has happened to someone i know with similar skills but less experience with subaru, and i have read stories about it on USMB in so many years.

 

Use Permatex Ultra Grey for the separator plate. The new one should be staped galvanized seal with all screws and one allen screw for the top corner as separate part numbers to get the hardware. You will need the new hardware to replace what you have.

 

an ej22e would have an aluminum plate that would replace yours with the same hardware. The plastic ones are less desired as they can crack in the middle.

 

In regard to notliving's post, my experience with buying parts is that there usually is a fuji supplied HG with aftermarket brands. I can assure you this is true with fel-pro with ea82 and ej22e HG. Look for a fuji stamp on the gaskets (looks like a fat upside down nike swoosh, boomerang shape)

[notliving]

Yes there is a bommerang shape stamped on the HG. Luckily this is a very easy engine to pull and work on so if I need to pull it back out it won't be a big deal.