ktdenali Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I have a 2000 Outback ltd, EJ252. 168000 miles. I had the Head Gaskets replaced at 136000 because I had bubbles in my overflow. Even I had that done, I have been having bubbles and coolant getting pushed out the overflow tank. Anyway. 32000 miles later (today) my car starts to over heat after I drove it 600 miles on the highway and I came into town. There seems to be no coolant loss (none in oil, or through exhaust or anywhere else but maybe the over flow tank.) My radiator is practically new (changed at 142k) When HG were changed they changed most everything else with it (pump, thermostat OEM, the whole shabang) Fans run, but not immediately as I come to a read light off the Highway. It only overheats in town, after a lot of miles of constant running. What the heck is going on, anyone knows? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Was the radiator burped properly after it was replaced or the HGs replaced? Were both HGs replaced? What type of HG was used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktdenali Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 The HGs were done by a very good reputable mechanic in town here. he said he used OEM (the same he uses on every Subaru he works, and he only works on Subarus) The radiator was burped after replaced, but that was almost 30,000 miles ago. I believe he did both head gaskets. As I said before a few months after I got the HGs done the bubbles came back. I took it back to the mechanic and suspected the block may be warped. We do not know what the previous owner before me did to it the first 130,000 miles. It has never over heated with me until now. The heads was also machined and they have taken some unpronounceable micro mm off of it. So far it has run over 30000 miles since the HGs were replaced, and that is with bubbles like crazy. This time around I drove it to Denver (600 miles) and right as I got to my destination I got a lot of red lights and and it started overheating. I don't understand how it did not do anything non-stop Hwy. I drove it a few miles with my defrost blasting which cooled it down and it was parked for 4-5 days. Also at the time it over heated my hoses were not normal stiff and hard but very easy to squezee. The overflow was full, the radiator low. Today I drove it back from Denver. Same exact thing. no problem for all 600 miles, but I was almost home driving in town it did it again. Except this time the hoses remained hard. I wonder if running it 30,000 miles with bubbles coming through weakened my radiator cap. So i put a new one on. We will see what it'll do. Anyway more ideas other than an obvious HG leak that cannot be fixed (if I have a warmed block possibly????) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 It is possible that the block is warped. You might be in the market for a new engine. I would suggest an ej22. I put an ej22 in a few months ago and I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktdenali Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 I used to have a EJ22 in a legacy before. Those are indestructible and hard to find anymore. If I could I would go for one of those for sure. I am gonna try to change to coolant today because it's color has significantly changed since it was put in. I assume it's because it has been constantly blasted with combustion gases. I still wonder why it would not over heat on HWY but as soon as I got to the city it started??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 was the Subaru coolant conditioner added at any point? it is required on that engine, costs $2.50 at the dealer. if you're doing a coolant change anyway i would add two of those bottles. they don't have much chance of fixing exhaust gases blowing into the coolant but for $5 it's worth a shot. 130,000 miles: Bought vehicle 136,000 miles: Replaced headgaskets most likely the previous owner dumped the car with headgasket issues and may have overheated it before hand...leaving you with some unknowns. when the mechanic replaced the headgaskets did he happen to notice whether they had been replaced previously or work had been in there before? as for highway verses city, i suppose the higher rpm's of the motor and therefore the water pump may have something to do with it. they make radiator caps with a little lever on the top that will allow the exhaust gases to escape, they don't always help but sometimes they work. given that yours seems to only do this in the city i am inclined to think it may in your case. with the unknowns i doubt i'd be putting much more work/money into this motor....might be a good test candidate to try some of those crazy "block sealers" and magic in a bottle stuff that i avoid and have never used. but if i was in your shoes and knowing the engine is questionable and not worth keeping - it would be a perfect test mule before getting another motor and scrapping this one. there are a number of you-tube success stories from random jokers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I used to have a EJ22 in a legacy before. Those are indestructible and hard to find anymore. If I could I would go for one of those for sure. I am gonna try to change to coolant today because it's color has significantly changed since it was put in. I assume it's because it has been constantly blasted with combustion gases. I still wonder why it would not over heat on HWY but as soon as I got to the city it started??? Because on the highway you have high airflow against the engine which is doing a good job of cooling it. In the city you have no such airflow, so it overheats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktdenali Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 I just drove it around town in 100 F weather for an hour and no sign of over heating. However, driving it sound like flushing the toilet. You can hear coolant movement (like a sewer pipe) as you accelerate. I have never added the Subaru Coolant additive. Most people I talked to said it seems silly to try to fix a major problem with some cheap liquid. But like you said, this maybe the end of this engine so if it's really only $2.50 I will try it. I bought the car at 126k and HG was done at 136k. The sole reason being bubbles in my coolant. Where I live it's hard to find Subaru engines, especially 2.2's. So I may have to look for a new car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I just drove it around town in 100 F .pretty much meaningless to a car. you and I think 100 is hot, but that's COLD to an engine so it really doesn't matter. that's how these motors are - they randomly overheat, it is often not at all predictable. I have never added the Subaru Coolant additive. Most people I talked to said it seems silly to try to fix a major problem with some cheap liquid.it's is *required* by Subaru and has no ill effect. if your mechanic knows Subarus he should have installed it, just about everyone who specializes in Subaru's is. it only works on external leaks so it's not likely to work now anyway. yeah sorry to hear about that, it really is unfortunate and you likely got hosed by the previous owner who dumped at the first sign of issues, pretty common with these engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 the conditioner only helps, and is only promoted for, external 'weeping' of coolant. I don't think it will harm anything if used appropriately. I have heard of people using other products for bad HGs - I'm just skeptical it works very often or for a long time. Combustion chamber pressures are much higher than cooling system pressures and I doubt any high-tech substance in the coolant can even be deposited where it needs to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I just drove it around town in 100 F weather for an hour and no sign of over heating.However, driving it sound like flushing the toilet. You can hear coolant movement (like a sewer pipe) as you accelerate. There is air or exhaust gasses in your cooling system. That's what creates the noise. I have never added the Subaru Coolant additive. Most people I talked to said it seems silly to try to fix a major problem with some cheap liquid. But like you said, this maybe the end of this engine so if it's really only $2.50 I will try it. The Subaru stop leak (HOLTS Radweld) is used to fix the external weepage problem. Not a bad seal on a HG fire ring. It will do less than nothing for your problem. I bought the car at 126k and HG was done at 136k. The sole reason being bubbles in my coolant. Bubbles in the coolant is not a failure mode of your year engine's HG's. They weep externally. You need to test these bubbles for exhaust gas contamination. You may not have a HG problem at all. Where I live it's hard to find Subaru engines, especially 2.2's. So I may have to look for a new car. The used engine market is national. Shipping an engine is simple, and relatively cheap compared to their price. In any case you don't want a phase-II EJ22 as they are expensive. If you replace it at all then replace it with an EJ25. Sounds like you have a problem but it's not going to be solved with coolant conditioner. I would be having a talk with your mechanic - something is not right with a HG job that only lasts 32k miles. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktdenali Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 if I start out the day with normal coolant levels (i.e. after I burped the engine) and even leave my overflow tank on the LOW mark, by the end of a longer trip (interstate) the overflow will be full, in fact if will push out some of it. The bubbles keep going for a little while after I shut the engine off. After it cooled down the overflow stays full so it does not get sucked back in the radiator. I think it theoretically should. As far as testing the coolant. Unfortunately I do not have those tools (cost about $50 right?) It kind of smells gasy, not like regular coolant and its color changes over time to something much darker, grayish. I don't know how this car is still running. I would love to use a EJ22, but I am very very sceptical about the Subaru 2.5's anymore. No matter what phase. Which brings me to another question, if anyone knows. Has Subaru fixed the HG problems by the 2005-2009 generation Outbacks??? or those still give out on you at 120k ish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john40iowa Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 the conditioner only helps, and is only promoted for, external 'weeping' of coolant. I don't think it will harm anything if used appropriately. I have heard of people using other products for bad HGs - I'm just skeptical it works very often or for a long time. Combustion chamber pressures are much higher than cooling system pressures and I doubt any high-tech substance in the coolant can even be deposited where it needs to go. I have used the Subaru conditioner for eight years and had no trouble whatsoever with the cooling system nor had any ill effects otherwise. Of course it does nothing for the oil weep which the head gaskets are also prone to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I)arkZrobe Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I am in the same exact boat. Never had a problem with overheating but I drove from San Diago to Colorado Springs. It started overheating in Nevada when I idled (Stoped in traffic/stop lights/etc). It has a nice little bubble to it and it seems when I step on the accelerator it puts enough force to the water pump to move the coolant again and it cools down. Mechanic said head gasket and that is being replaced this week uck... Engine is at 175K and the headgasket was replaced before I got it (140K was when I purchased it). I have had random misfires since I got it and I think I have been skirting a headgasket repair all this time. I am hoping it doesnt bubble when we replace the headgasket... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I)arkZrobe Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I don't know how this car is still running. Umm its a Subaru What would be catastrophic engine failure on another car is a minor annoyance for a Subaru? Not sure... I asked this question a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktdenali Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 So I drove it to work (160 mile commute per day) the last two weeks. It did not overheat, until today at a rail road crossing. I sped up and in quit, until I got to the next town. Just out of curiosity I opened the hood to see how crazy it was bubbling. It WASN'T!!! I drove home and let it coo just enough to be able to open my radiator cap. The hoses were still very stiff and hot. For some reason the bubbles were not blowing into my overflow this time while driving, but when I twisted the radiator cap just a ted, HOLY COW. It shot into the overflow like crazy. Mostly gas (combustion). I think the reason it over heats now is because my radiator runs low on coolant. Even if I fill it up it blows into the overflow tank and stays there. So my radiator is always low, and tank is always so full. Now I just need to figure out why the bubbles don't go into my overflow anymore. That is probably why I started overheating 'cause the pressure builds up and there is not relief. Subarus are interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Full overflow tank that's overflowing is a sure sign of HG failure. Exhaust gasses overpressure the system, and when the cap opens they escape taking coolant with them. Eventually you run low on coolant and it overheats when it stops circulating. The bubbles can also collect on the thermostat and cause it to close - causing overheating. Replace the HG's before you cook the motor to oblivion and it's no longer worth repairing. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 It could be that dealer head gaskets were not used when replaced. or the heads were out of spec and not resurfaced... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktdenali Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 He said OEM gaskets were use, the same ones he uses on hundreds of Subarus. The heads were resurfaced, but since the leak came back he suspects the block may have been warped from previous overheating (not in my hands) I think this engine is gonna be a throw away, because I already spent $1500 on it. I'd rather find a "new" one, spend a little more and have a better engine. We shall see. Where I live engines seem hard to find these days. I have talked to 3 mechanics already. My lower hose gets just as hot as the upper hose. So I suspect the thermostat still opens and let's the coolant circulate. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 you could rebuild it, and have the block decked true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themoneypit Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 what 2.2l engines are compatible with the phase II 2.5 SOHC? years and models would be helpful for a search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 '99 to '01 Last years they made them. Frankly though - they aren't any more reliable than the 2.5 IMO. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themoneypit Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) are they prone to HG failure like the 2.5s? or other reliability issues? are they a plug and play, or anything need changing when swapping one of these? did they have an EGR system? im looking into finding one for the exact same reasons/symptoms the OP stated. thanks in advance GD Edited July 28, 2012 by themoneypit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktdenali Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 I am looking at buying another one (5 speed) which has 90000 miles on it. It is a 2006, the next generation from mine. unfortunately a dealer, but I cannot do much about that. Subarus are hard to find used. Does anyone know if Subaru had fixed their HG idiocy by 2006 or is it still a problem? What are some of the years safe to buy, so the engines last Like the old 2.2's used to? I am not savvy enough to rebuild an engine, and I would hate to put another 1000s of dollars into this one, to get my engine rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john40iowa Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Food for thought. http://www.smart-service.com/mikescorner-headgasket.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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