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matts87glsedan

4x140 to 5x100 bolt pattern adapters

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well there's been some interest in my adapters, so im starting a vendor thread. 

 

heres the prototype: I have about 5000km on these, no problems yet.

 

2013-03-08173938_zpsbc7a8d3f.jpg

 

2013-03-09133950_zps8c6c4b1a.jpg

 

Stock material is 6061 T6 aluminum.  standard material for all internet wheel spacers. 

 

MOUNTING INFO

  • the 4x140 pattern is tapped with a M12 x 1.5 thread to facilitate bolting through the original stud holes to the hub. i will supply M12  x 30mm class 10.9 mounting bolts.  you need to knock out your studs and put the bolts in their place, torque is 72 ft-lbs, blue locktite MANDATORY!  retorque after 100kms. 

 

  • Note how the bolt sticks thru a TINY bit on the above pic.  This needs to be touched with an angle grinder or just filed off.  I wanted max thread engagement, so you have to live with this. 

 

STUD INFO - DORMAN 610-320 is recommended

  • the 5 x 100 pattern is drilled for an M12 1.25 stud with a 12.8mm knurl.  the stud head size that i used was 19mm dia, by 4.5mm deep. check your stud head diameter and thickness before installing. you may need to grind them a bit. these holes are a PRESS FIT.  i had to put about 1000psi on mine to get them seated, but you really don't want them to spin, so tight is good.  Length of studs needed is M12  x 40mm long.  Nissan pathfinder studs are  M12 1.25 x 41.5mm - they should be close enough, you make the call.  I am not providing studs.

 

  • When pressing - make sure the receiving die under the adapter is as small as possible, while still clearing the stud threads.  A bit of oil is ok.  Freezing the studs overnight may help too, but dont heat gun the adapter you may wreck the temper. 

 

CENTER BORE

its 1.98 inches.  you may have to grind your 36mm socket. mine fits.

 

RIM CENTERING 

these provide a 7/8 offset, with a 3.5mm tall lip to center the rim on.

 

price will be 60$ a piece. for one adapter and 4 mounting bolts

 

thanks soobydoo, capn_r , 86BRATMAN, and bratman18 for the initial interest here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/137844-matts-gl-sedan/ 

 

edit note - i am filling in the necessary finalized details in bold , as i nail it all down. 

Edited by matts87glsedan
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well had a busy week last week, so when the water jet guy didnt get back to me, i didnt remember to chase him down.  put in another call this morning to kickstart the quote machine. 

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well, i'm disappointed that i cant get a volume deal on the blanks, so I would have to charge 60$ a piece for the adapters.  this includes the 4 mounting bolts, but not the 5 studs.  so  thats 240 for a set of 4, plus the cost of 20 studs, 4 more lugnuts, and shipping.  if you junk yard the studs, you might get these on your car for around 300$ total.

 

a quick check on canada post says 49$ shipped to washington state. the package should be 10 lbs. 

 

let me know what you think.

 

if there is still interest, i will start an official preorder list, and i'll have to take some deposits.  if i can line up 5 people for sure, i'll place the order for the blanks.  

Edited by matts87glsedan

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I'd be interested in the long run. It would be a little while before I have the money for them though (other things on car taking priority....like, working a/c would be nice down here).

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I'd be interested in the long run. It would be a little while before I have the money for them though (other things on car taking priority....like, working a/c would be nice down here).

 

no problem, its not as good a price as i was hoping to put up, so i understand. :)  but hey, i dont think you can find them anywhere else either...

 

send me a PM when you want some, and i'll add you to the list.  

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Put me down for a pair, I only need mine for the rear. 

 

 

Done, this is now

 

The Official List:

 

86BRATMAN - 1 pair

edrach           - 1 pair

dudesmccool - 2 pair

subaruguru    - 2 pair   

soobydoo       - 2 pair

86GLAK          - 2 pair

ftwneon          - 2 pair

i will edit this post as others sign up...  feel free to spread the word :) .  once i get to 20 pieces , i'll order the material.  

Edited by matts87glsedan
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dont buy them yet, but it looks like the studs needed will be m12 1.25 x 45mm long.  These will give you the stock amount of thread that a legacy hub has - 33mm.

 

the Pathfinder studs MAY work.  they are 41.5mm long. 

Edited by matts87glsedan

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I am interested in more data on these.  What material are you planning to make them out of?  Obviously your prototypes are aluminum, but what grade?  Any heat treating planned?

 

You have 5,000km on them so far.  Great!  What is the maximum speed you have tested them to?  Do you have any plans to do any V-max testing, or will there be a suggested ceiling?

 

What sort of runouts numbers are you shooting for and will there be any balancing going on?

 

Have you considered having holes machined to allow the OEM hub/adapter assembly to be unbolted from the upright as a unit?

 

These are NOT criticisms of your planned product, I just want to be sure that these will be safe and durable.

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I am interested in more data on these.  What material are you planning to make them out of?  Obviously your prototypes are aluminum, but what grade?  Any heat treating planned?

 

 I edited the first post to fill in this info.

 

You have 5,000km on them so far.  Great!  What is the maximum speed you have tested them to?  Do you have any plans to do any V-max testing, or will there be a suggested ceiling?

 

 I have personally only tested them up to 130km/h (81.25mph).  i do a 140km round trip every day on them which involves both tight highway turns and sweeping highway corners. a beauty road to push it on.  i was running tall winters on them and have not cornered them REALLY hard yet.  but i just put on some shorter all seasons and that will up the cornering a bit.  The meat holding the stud in will be 12mm thick on the production run. mine are held by less.

Vmax testing will be done by Ivan after i sell him a set... (wait, he doesnt leave home, nevermind).   Suggested ceiling - not being an engineer, i can only be ultra conservative about this.  i can provide my own personal test data, and suggest a limit from there.  i get the feeling you may want to take these to the track?

 

 

What sort of runouts numbers are you shooting for and will there be any balancing going on 

Excellent question. runout on the prototype is questionable - could be up to .02 TIR .  The production run will be easily concentric within .01 TIR , most likely less, but i wont say exactly till i run them. they'll be tight.  but an actual weight balance? no . i will rely on the consistency of the alloy for that. I do have access to a balancer, maybe i'll rig one up and check it, but i dont think it will be an issue. 

Have you considered having holes machined to allow the OEM hub/adapter assembly to be unbolted from the upright as a unit?

hmmm no i have not - i will look at the pattern overlap. if there isnt any weakness issues, that would be a good addition.  the center hole does allow the axle nut to be removed. 

 

These are NOT criticisms of your planned product, I just want to be sure that these will be safe and durable.

 

All good questions, i have been waiting for someone to 'bring the heat' on these. i Run a very high quality CNC lathe/mill - tolerances within .003 are childs play for it. material is supplied by a reputable company in town. mistakes have already been made on the first 4, and they are still safe and functional. the next run will be a refined, accurate product.  The only thing i cant say for sure is 'can you take it down to the 3 corner oval and rail the spoob out of them at 120mph '... but if the stars align, i WILL be able to say by the end of the summer.  will they take deep rump roast potholes at 70mph? yes. 

 

 

Edit for clarity - TIR is ' total indicator reading' or 'total indicated runout' .  so on a round part, when you spin it, it will go say +.005 , then -.005 , for a TIR of .01 . but to make the part true, you only need to adjust it .005 .  Just incase anyone was wondering wtf i was talking about. 

Edited by matts87glsedan

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Forgive me for a stupid question, but how do the adapters mount to the OE hub? Are the original studs replaced with bolts from the back side of the OE hub?

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"the 4x140 pattern is tapped with a M12 1.75 thread to facilitate bolting through the original stud holes to the hub. Yes, that's a coarse thread pitch. . i will supply class 10.9 (grade 8) mounting bolts."

 

So yeah, knock out the OE studs, and bolt through the back of your hub, into the adapter.  

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So when will you be in production on these?  I have been looking for someone to do this for a while.  Put me down for 2 (since I already did the rear wheels on the brat using XT6 parts).  Just one question (maybe stupid but I have to ask) will the adapters fit over the raised ridges that center the wheels on the original gen2 Brat hubs?  Duplicate PM sent since I'm computer challenged and may not be able to find this thread again.

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hi


 


"will the adapters fit over the raised ridges that center the wheels on the original gen2 Brat hubs?"


 


i have not seen a gen 2 brat hub in person - i can say that they fit nicely on the original hub centering ring of my 87 GL sedan, both front and rear. . so if there is no difference there, then they will be fine.  I will look next time i'm at ivans , i think his brat is gen2. 


 


ok, i will add you to the list.  that puts me to 4 of 20 pieces that i will ideally run. i dont have a closing  date set, but i'm hoping i'll be running them in late july.  


 


hopefully the list fills soon, and i will be seeing you later this summer  :) . 


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I replied on your non-vendor post earlier, but I could amend that here. You're far enough from the Seattle area to discourage me from driving out unless I decide to spend a week travelling out and back (with a few days to enjoy Lumby). But postal service out and back for two is not prohibitive.

 

Here's what I propose (when you're ready to do the production run): I can send you two gen2 Brat hubs; you send me two "adapted" hubs back. I'd be glad to pay for the extra studs as needed, labor to assemble them, and postage to get them back to me. I could send money up front or however you want to arrange payment. They look like a fine product and I promise not to take my Brat over 80 mph (lol). I would have taken 4 except I've already done the rear wheels using XT6 parts.

 

Sometime in the future, I might consider a set of four in steel to install on our "rallybrat" for competition use.

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I replied on your non-vendor post earlier, but I could amend that here. You're far enough from the Seattle area to discourage me from driving out unless I decide to spend a week travelling out and back (with a few days to enjoy Lumby). But postal service out and back for two is not prohibitive. 

 

Here's what I propose (when you're ready to do the production run): I can send you two gen2 Brat hubs; you send me two "adapted" hubs back. I'd be glad to pay for the extra studs as needed, labor to assemble them, and postage to get them back to me. I could send money up front or however you want to arrange payment. They look like a fine product and I promise not to take my Brat over 80 mph (lol). I would have taken 4 except I've already done the rear wheels using XT6 parts.  its a pretty simple thing to tap out the studs and bolt them on, but if you dont mind the extra cost, i could do it this way as well.   

 

Sometime in the future, I might consider a set of four in steel to install on our "rallybrat" for competition use. - i generally dont like to run steel in my machine, since my general production stuff is exclusively aluminum. but i'd think about it. 

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all right, the list is filled!

 

The Official List:

 

86BRATMAN - 1 pair

edrach           - 1 pair

dudesmccool - 2 pair

subaruguru    - 2 pair   

soobydoo       - 2 pair

86GLAK          - 2 pair

ftwneon           - 2 pair

 

i will order the blanks 

 

 

 

thanks for the link! However, i should mention that the linked studs show a 45mm thread length.   when i have referred to a 45mm stud, i am referring to 45mm overall length - so thats 45mm including both the knurl and the threads, but not the head.  the ones in the links would most likely be too long for a stock 'acorn nut' type of lug nut. 

Edited by matts87glsedan

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well, i'm disappointed that i cant get a volume deal on the blanks, so I would have to charge 60$ a piece for the adapters.  this includes the 4 mounting bolts, but not the 5 studs.  so  thats 240 for a set of 4, plus the cost of 20 studs, 4 more lugnuts, and shipping.  if you junk yard the studs, you might get these on your car for around 300$ total.

 

a quick check on canada post says 49$ shipped to washington state. the package should be 10 lbs. 

 

let me know what you think.

 

if there is still interest, i will start an official preorder list, and i'll have to take some deposits.  if i can line up 5 people for sure, i'll place the order for the blanks.  

Not worried about the additional cost.  I still think this is more than fair and just what I've been looking for.  However, based on your comments about the ease of mounting I think I'll save the postage and and just order the one pair of adaptors.  Drop me a a PM with the final cost including shipping and  mounting bolts and how you wish to be paid (paypal, int'l money order, check, credit card).  I guess I can find the studs (if not on ebay, at the local junkyard)  and I'll send you my shipping address by PM or snailmail or whatever.  

Edited by edrach

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Not that I'm in any hurry for this, but have you been able to make the first batch yet?  If you're waiting for a payment, let me know. 

Edited by edrach

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