babyfacefitz Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hey Guys, Just had my head gaskets done and timing belt replaced two months ago by a friend. Over the last week my idle was rough and on my way home the engine barely ran. I thought a rod bearing was failing but with this site and youtube i think it might be my timing belt tensioner. The sound is in front. Should I have my stealership friend do the timing belt tensioner or tackle it myself. I have experience at other issues but have stayed away from the timing belt jobs. thanks, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'd confirm that the timing is off before going into it further. They can slip a tooth and the engine will run but just barely. Pull the timing covers and see if the timing marks align. If they don't, then go ahead and do the timing job. Here's a really good writeup on how to do it for the SOHC motors. It's not a bad job. Takes an hour or two for those of us who have done them. The first time is maybe 3 hours. http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t154453-diy-sohc-timing-belt-change-w-pics.html If you're going to do the timing job, I recommend you replace with a whole kit and not just the tensioner. It's not expensive. gates kits run about 150 with water pump and more like 120 without. Good peace if mind down the road and less wrenching. Be aware that your motor is interference and if it slipped timing there's possible valve damage. Not sure how fickle they are as I've never had an interference motor slip timing yet. If you do proceed with a timing job No check engine light or anything? if it slipped a tooth you should get a cam/crank sensor code. How good are your plugs and wires? How new is your MAF? also likely possibilities for a sudden drop in engine performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Its not hard to replace the tensioner with all the timing belt diy's available. But by the time you take off the timing belt cover, you have done 1/3 of the work to change tensioner and idlers on an 02. Edited February 2, 2015 by mikec03 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyfacefitz Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 thanks guys, I plan on doing the whole kit. The full gates kit @ $130 on amazon, only $30 more than jus the tensioner. I just got a new belt and water pump on it two months ago, so'll I'll keep one belt for next time. No codes but my familiar P0420. I shouldn't done more research and got a new tensioner on two months ago and got the whole kit then. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 belt and tensioner can be done in an hour. not hard at all. crank pulley bolt is massive and needs to be TIGHT and tricky to remove for first timers. other than that it's easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyfacefitz Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Can that crank pulley be broken with a three foot breaker bar with a cheater? Or would I need an air impact? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 my WRX broke loose with the car in 5th, chocked, with e-brake on. Used a 6 point socket , breaker and cheater pipe. some people have used the starter bump method and I was prepared to do that as plan B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I've used the 'Starter-Bump' method, for the crank-pulley bolt. Works first-time, every-time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 yes 3 feet is plenty - the pipe i routinely use on my socket is 2 or 2.5 feet. i've never had one back off and never use a torque wrench on those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyfacefitz Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Is a good idea to just get a new crank shaft pulley bolt, in case the old one is stretched? Should I use or not use the thread locker that came with the kit. It recommends using it on the crank shaft bolt. thanks guys, I'm tackling this sat. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) triple check everything. Count the teeth from all the timing marks to the next timing mark. Count after new belt is installed BEFORE pulling the tensioner pin, count AFTER pulling the pin, count again after rotating the crank twice by hand. After the crank is turned, any marks on the belt will no longer be in sync, but tooth counts and timing marks will always be the same. On suggestion from the forum, I put a piece of cardboard on the radiator to help protect it from slipped tools. Edited February 6, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) 3' breaker is plenty, remove rubber plug on flywheel (top pas side of engine) insert large screw driver or pry bar, wedge flywheel and pop crank bolt free. Same method makes sure you get it tight when replacing. Locktite is not necessary if you get the bolt tight to begin with. Three marks to keep aligned , the crank is easy ,one cam is under tension and one is not. When installing the belt start at the crank keeping tight go around tensioner and drivers side cam , keeping tight continue around to other cam , here is where I will allow the cam to be off time (towards the fender) a small amount as it will roll towards the crank as you finaly get the belt to slip on , its not hard but its also not easy... be calm it will fit. Do not worry about the lines on the belt do not try to line them up. Once you have the belt on and all your timing marks are good then you pull the pin on your tensioner allowing it to move... now put your ballenser(pulley) on and slowly rotate the engine clockwise around two times until all three timing marks are aligned. I should mention that the passenger side cam has no real mark to align with just straight up with a case seam directly above it is all you get on that side. If after turning over the motor ANY of the timing marks are not dead on then you do it all over... (can be frustrating ) Don't get excited just take your time and you will get it right. Afterwards you will never be afraid to open up the front again because you will be an expert. Very important is getting the ballenser bolt good and tight or the pulley will come loose and do terrible things to your crankshaft and radiator. I should mention that if you have to repeat this instalation then you will have to compress your tensioner and re install the pin , do this in a vise and do it slowly little turns and it will easily compress and you can place the pin thru all three holes and then remove from vise , your ready to try again . DO NOT FORCE THE TENSIONER, Edited February 6, 2015 by montana tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 ^^ good post, re-compressing a tensioner is always done at a glacial pace - over several minutes. uh, just in case it wasn't mentioned, use the timing line at the back of the crank pulley pointing at 12 - towards the boss with the crank position sensor in it., NOT the triangle/arrow on the front. It will be at about the 3 o'clock position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyfacefitz Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 thanks for the tips Tom, Gary, Mike, and texan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyfacefitz Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Stripped the block! Everything went ok till….putting in last 14 mm bolt on the smooth idler pulley. Then i torque down AND STRIPPED the block. I've been torqueing for years and know an idea on ft/lbs but maybe using my 30" breaker bar didn't help. should I repair with Helicoils? Looking around I see there's another product Timeserts. I looks like I might get a rt. angle drill or should I end up removing the radiator. thanks Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyfacefitz Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 any idea what my thread size is on that smooth idler pulley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 When working on the timing components a torque wrench is highly recommended, if not mandatory. The bolt hole that you stripped is speced at only 35 ft lbs. Aluminum threads strip very easily. On the other hand, the crankshaft bolt is speced at 133 ft lbs. Under tightening the crankshaft bolt is fairly common. That creates additional problems. Also, if you are working on a Forester you might want to remove the radiator to gain enough working space. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Michael: Bummer ! bolt size is 10 x 1.25 Can't believe that you haven't removed the radiator, makes everything easier, and there is nothing to it. Unplug the two fans, Should be able to leave them bolted to the rad. remove the overflow tank if you haven't already, if is an automatic then disconnect the rubber lines to the tranny. Upper / lower radiator hose then 2 bolts on top should do it . I have only used helicoil before, always worked good for me , but there may be newer better stuff out there that I haven't tried yet. In hindsight maybe... 30" 1/2" drive BREAKER BAR was a little big... lol oh well ...drill it , tap it and carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyfacefitz Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 I got the fans and over flow out of the way already. Thanks on the bolt info. I've got a torque wrench but got too cocky and was rushing it a bit. Drills straight I assume is real important on this idler pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholi2789 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I did this job for the first time on my Legacy 2.2 liter a couple weeks ago and while the engines are a little different the timing job is almost exactly the same except for the tensioner and even that is almost the same. It took me more than 4 hours but I also took my time and did cam/crank seals, resealed the oil pump, new water pump, and all new pulleys and whatnot. Removing the radiator is the way to go for sure. Two fan connectors, recovery tank, two hoses and two bolts. Takes five minutes for soo much more space. Montana Tom was spot on with his post a little ways up. The hardest part of this entire job is putting the new belt on. After trying to route the belt so many times and still not getting the marks to line up I was ready to pull my hair out. That is by far the hardest part. I ended up having the passenger side cam about a half tooth off towards the outside, cause I figured when I pull the pin on the tensioner it will pull it towards the driver side and line up. I was right. I spent probably an hour or so trying to route that friggen belt. Like Montana Joe said, stay calm, don't freak out, it will work out. It is tough though. Lucky for me I only had to pull the pin on the tensioner once. It pulled the passenger cam in line when I pulled the pin. Everything after that is cake. Also, when refilling the radiator be sure to follow proper filling/bleeding procedures as it can cause you a real headache if you don't (trust me on that one lol). I fell confident if I had to do another timing job on one of these I could do it in half the time. Not that hard really. Hopefully everything works out for you and you are able to get that re-tapped. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Michael; Yes straight is important !!! lol This happens to aluminum motors. Take your time , use locktite red on your helicoil. Nicholi mentioned proper filling of the system. Here's how , After rad is installed and all the connections except the upper hose are attached and tight. Connect upper hose to engine (with clamp on ) pour your anti freeze directly into the upper hose keep going untill water is staying in the upper hose, quickly swing it over and attach to radiator. Now fill the radiator, there is an air bleeder valve on the pas side top of radiator. I don't use it ... as you get water to show up at the rad cap gently squeeze the upper hose burping the air out . Once its full put the cap on and start motor and turn on the heater inside. Once you get heat in the cab and do your test drive to check things out . Park the car let it cool off then double check your radiator level and overflow level. Your Done... A new subi mechanic is born! Edited February 9, 2015 by montana tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyfacefitz Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thanks for the steps to avoid air lock on my coolant system. The timing belt is new to me but burping the coolant isn't. I got a set of Timesert coming to me. Is there room for the timesert or should I use a helical instead? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hey michael; I never used timesert, always helicoil, but i'm old school, you know, can't teach an old dog a new trick ... unless he wants (HAS ) to ! The coolant trick could help the next guy that isn't familiar. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyfacefitz Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 The timesert worked. It did have some play in it so I used some jb weld to seat the insert. Then I put the bolt/pulley on hand tight to center if needed before the jb weld set. Got a snap on torque wrench and got timing belt on. The motor runs better so I think the tensioner might have been needed. But I still have a pretty loud ticking sound. A couple of months back my HG went and I limped home watching my temp gauge. Ever since then there's a cold start strong ticking sound especially 2k-3k rpms. I've got a video of the motor now. Should I use a youtube link? do you guys recommend I put radiator back on and just live with the sound? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 if it's knocking/rapping noise that is louder on cold starts and lessens in volume as the car warms, that's usually piston slap. ignore it. anything else probably shouldn't be ignored and is more ominous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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