joe5 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 So I'm running into a weird problem with getting a shop to align my 92 loyale (its currently up for sale, and I just wanna take care of it before I pass it on to the next person). I recently got the firestone here in corvallis to put a new set of tires on the loyale. As a part of the deal, they check the alignment. They tell me that they can't because the suspension was too loose, tell me its cuz the driver side ball joint is bad and gimme a quote to fix the ball joint. I raised an eye brow because I had just swapped that ball joint within the year. But it really was a tough ball joint to install, like it was too big and we really had to pound it in...Well ball joints are cheap and I already know how to do it so I just bought a new ball joint and installed it. When I was in there, I saw the tie rod ends were kinda ugly so I went a head and swapped out both of those, just thinking I'm gonna get an alignment so why not? I've also replaced axles and wheel bearings in the front for within the last month for whatever thats worth. So now I go back to firestone and ask for an alignment. They call me back again and say they still can't do it. The dude at the desk is tellin me its likely a "knuckle failuer", another guy thought it was the inner tie rod. Are they just giving me the run around trying to convince me to pay them to swap out some elusive suspension component or is there something to this? I have a hard time believing that a knuckle can go bad. It looks good to me. So maybe it is the inner tie rod? Furthermore, when I pick the car up at home, I don't get any noticeable play of the tire up and down or left or right...I don't mind fixing something if it needs it, but I'm really scratching my head here. Any suggestions here would be great. I'm running into a point of diminishing returns since I'm selling the car. But now it needs an alignment because I swapped the tie rod ends assuming the alignment would be a tangible objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'd find a different shop and get a second opinion. Don't share what the previous place said. If they tell you the same thing, it's doubtful they both made up the same lie. Otherwise just get it aligned and ready for the new owner. I feel like if there were issue with the knuckle, you'd be feeling shuttering/bearing like issues that would be fairly obvious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdweninger Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Try Les Schwab ... see what they say. Make sure you ask them to check for component failure before they align. Ask to observe when the car is on the lift. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombieblues Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I would suggest changing the inner rods both ball joins and the struts. When they try to say one of them needs to be replaced contact the BBB (http://www.bbb.org/) , The attorney general (1-877-877-9392 ) and submit a complaint to the state of Oregon dept of justice (https://justice.oregon.gov/consumercomplaints/OnlineComplaints/OnlineComplaintForm/en) If you let them know ahead of time perhaps they will be willing to drop the scam and fix your alignment without needing to get them sued by the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe5 Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Thanks for the quick response. I'm leaning towards what Adventure Subaru and ron are sayin. Probably the best way to find out quickly. There are two les schwabs in town, both aparrantly booked up till this weekend. I think I'll make an appointment with them. I'd rather not dig back into the cars suspension unless I have to. It seems a bit premature to submit a complaint to attorney general. I like to think no body's trying to proactively scam me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 There is no excuse for them io be unable to tell you WHY they can not align it. Sounds to me like they just do not feel like they doing a free alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonist Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) I agree with Naru. If they can do an alignment, they can do the work to fix it, so they should know what can be wrong. I had a local tyre dealer do a wheel alignment (paid) on my 93 Legacy when it needed new front tyres. They said the camber was way out & it would need lots of work to fix. Different story when I complained to the manager that the Legacy comes standard with an offset bolt to connect the strut to the steering knuckle. The alignment became free. Edited May 12, 2015 by wagonist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yeah, I'd find a different shop to check/do alignment. Have had my own issues with places I've taken various vehicles into for alignments. One was an '73 GMC Sprint, (Chevy Elcameno). Totally rebuilt the front end of it. Everything other than rims was "BRAND NEW". And I do mean everything.. Took it in for an alignment and was told they couldn't because of worn parts. Got the keys from them, unlocked the door, opened glove-box to grab the stack of receipts, walked back in the office. Asked to speak to the Tech that checked it. When he came into the office I handed him the stack and asked what brand new part with less than 10 miles on it was worn out. He couldn't do nothing but stare at me. I promptly left the building with the Manager yelling at me that I owed the "rack fee" for the inspection. Which I didn't pay. Get a second opinion...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferox Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I had Les Schwab tell me that once and handed me the estimate to replace all my tie rod ends and stuff. I just went home and replaced it all with better quality for about a 1/5 the cost. When I took it back for the alignment they did not have any problems with it. So definitely try Schwab. I kind of depends on who is working the desk...the customer service has suffered since Les passed. One thing I do is dress in a shirt and tie when I go into a situation like this. I do this for everything. One time I had a brand new set of tires from Les Schwab less than two weeks old. I came around a corner and hit a crazy pothole that ripped giant holes in the sidewalls of two of the tires. Well, Les Schwab has a road hazard warranty, so I took them down to my most local shop and they flat out refused to even listen to me. I went home put on a button-up and tie and went to the next local Schwab. They couldn't get me new tires fast enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Since you clearly have the tools to fix it, you can check the front end yourself. Jack up the front end and place jack stands or wood blocks under the outboard ends of the control arms about 1" or so from the tires. You need to set the stands or blocks so the tires are 1"- 2" off the ground when you lower the jack. This way all of the weight is on the suspension, IE: loaded. You can now check all the components correctly that they would check. Steering wheel locked, grab a front tire at the front and rear and pull it left and right. If there's any play, you (or your 'assistant') look to see where the play is. Inner tie rod, outter tie rod, wheel bearing/hub or lower control arm. Next, grab the tire top to bottom and pull in and out top to bottom and see if you have play. See where it is. Lower bj, strut mount, wheel bearing/hub or control arm. Last, take a large prybar or similar object between the tire and the ground. Pry up and down on the tire and see if there is play in the lower bj or control arm. Repeat for the other side. Some play is normal but there shouldn't be any clunking or clicking. When you do the left to right, you may get a clunk from the steering column if there's a little movement and that's also normal. Congratulations! You've just done a front end check! Now go tell Exploding Rock to eat gravel, because it sounds to me like they're trying to sand job you. lmao Edited May 13, 2015 by skishop69 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I like to think no body's trying to proactively scam me. Your faith in others is admirable,but,misplaced. They WERE trying to scam you. Since they are unable/unwilling to name the faulty part,your thesis is correct. "Are they just giving me the run around trying to convince me to pay them to swap out some elusive suspension component" The whole point of the free "alignment check" is to sell front end work.(needed or not) They have to pay the rent somehow. Your story reminds me of the time I was sitting in the waiting room of a local tire shop while a friend had some tires swapped. From where I was sitting I could overhear the manager phoning customers w/the bad news. 1st call- Your car needs balljoints.It is unsafe. 2nd call-Your car needs balljoints.It is unsafe. 3rd call-Your car needs balljoints.It is unsafe. Not a chance in Hades that he had 3 in a row that needed balljoints. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombieblues Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks for the quick response. I'm leaning towards what Adventure Subaru and ron are sayin. Probably the best way to find out quickly. There are two les schwabs in town, both aparrantly booked up till this weekend. I think I'll make an appointment with them. I'd rather not dig back into the cars suspension unless I have to. It seems a bit premature to submit a complaint to attorney general. I like to think no body's trying to proactively scam me True. Not the best to jump the gun. I've read so many horror stories that now I trust no person with the repairs of my vehicle unless I am involved. I've had tires set on the hub but not tightened down all the way. My buddy had a high pressure steering line punctured and I've had a clutch replaced when the problem was the transmission (Which I also paid for) Just cover your rump roast. If you don't feel comfortable leave.. And if they really are being shady you can bust their rump roast!!! Good luck Joe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Why not do it your self its very easy and the only adjustment would be your tow in or in this case tow out about 1/4" i cant remeber the mm but its a hair under 1/4 you just need a tape mesure and cresent wrench for adjustment if your pulling one way or the other then there is something else wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 If I recall, there is only one adjustment. Most of it is fixed on the Loyales. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maozebong Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 yeah, the only adjustment is toe on the front end. i always ask for mine to be set to zero toe in the front, and remind the tech that the steering wheel might have been removed once to "correct" a crooked wheel. over the course of a few alignments, the adjustment is maxed out on one side, and about to fall out on the other because the steering wheel got moved. ask for them to prove the knuckle failed, and if they can't, get a raincheck on the alignment for a day when someone more intelligent will do the work. check the arm on the knuckle, and the distance between it and the rotor, make sure its even between both sides... but that's very uncommon considering how much abuse many on here can attest them handling. i think the tech doesnt know how to align vehicles, or is not mounting the sensor correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe5 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 I'm glad people found this post interesting and I'm surprised to hear how many of you guys have had similar experiences and even gone the distance to very a potential scam. The car doesn't pull one way or the other. I'm not confident enough to align adjust it myself but I can get down there and check again for movement in the fashion several of you suggested. Since both les scwabs are booked up till the weekend, I'll check for play again saturday morning before I get the car aligned. I don't have information to build on until I can do those two things. I'll be sure to report back and let you guys know how it pans out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoobDood05 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I would also check for loose control arm bushings they can affect alignment angles. shifted engine cradle, bent struts or strut mounts or previous collision damage can affect your steering axis inclination (sai) which is not adjustable. Worn or saggy springs can affect your caster angles as well. Just a few ideas if it hasnt been mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoobDood05 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I would also check for loose control arm bushings they can affect alignment angles. shifted engine cradle, bent struts or strut mounts or previous collision damage can affect your steering axis inclination (sai) which is not adjustable. Worn or saggy springs can affect your caster angles as well. Just a few ideas if it hasnt been mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe5 Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 welp someone ended up buying the car before I figured it all out. But I let him know thebackground so maybe he will lemme know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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