bgambino Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I thought (I know) that numerous years ago, I learned here on this forum to use ultra grey for sealing the back of the oil pump as well as putting a little on the o-ring on the oil pump...... All along I thought this was considered an anaerobic sealant..... Am I crazy? I've done it on more than one occasion and never had a problem.....now I am unsure...HELP!! haha I am doing a T belt job this week and would like to know the best sealer to use.... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swootton Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 The way gaskets are designed. If there is a gasket, any style, paper, metal, o-ring no sealant of any kind should be used with that gasket unless specified in the service manual. Sealer of any kind has a specific purpose and is designed to seal without a gasket. The only time I have every considered using sealer with a gasket is if the metal is eroded at the sealing surface and a replacement housing/mounting surface is not available or cost effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Ultra grey is Aerobic. It needs oxygen in order to dry, which is why it usually takes 24 hours to cure once it's applied. Anaerobic only dries in a lack of oxygen. Any that gets squeezed out from between parts won't dry. By the stuff that is between the parts will dry and cure in about 30 minutes to an hour. http://www.autobodynow.com/products/permatex-51813-anaerobic-gasket-maker-50-ml-tubea-a-a?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=4882299585&gclid=CLbFpqvuzsgCFU6PHwodINYESg About $12 for a tube at the parts store last time I bought some, but that was a few years ago. The stuff lasts forever. Put two dabs on a sheet of foil. Put a penny over one dab, and leave the other exposed. You can even smear it all over. Leave it and come back in an hour and the exposed will still be wet, But the stuff under the penny will be cured. Leave it for a week and the exposed sealant will still be wet. Cover it up, (another penny) and where it's covered will be dry in an hour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 You didn't ask, but just so you know, there is a gasket that you can use on the oil pump, which replaces the sealant. I used it. It didn't leak. No problem, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 thanks FT so someone straighten me out I KNOW that 10 years ago I was told here to use permatex ultra grey for sealing the oil pump and o-ring and it was an anaerobic sealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Subaru--and other manufacturers--use anaerobic sealant when assembling engines. But for DIYers and small shops it was rather expensive and difficult to find, so they published a list of acceptable substitutes. Permatex Ultra-Grey was a recommended substitute. BTW, you don't need to seal the oil pump O-ring--in fact it's probably a bad idea. People do that to hold the O-ring in place while positioning the pump. I prefer a small dab of Vaseline myself! Good luck! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Anaerobic will NOT break off in clumps like silicone sealants inside the engine. If any gets squeezed out during assembly, excess won't harden and block oil passages or get into the pump rotor; it'll either mix with the oil or stay put and will still be soft regardless of age or time passed. It creates a VERY strong bond on surfaces that are nearly perfectly flat like machined pieces. In fact the bond can be too strong at times to the point you need to add heat to get it loose. Had that happen on a Saab oil pan that actually requires it. A rubber mallet and 30 minutes would not break it (loctite red, forget the number) loose, but propane and heating the pan evenly for 10 minutes and it popped right off. Where it can't be used is places with uneven surfaces or with large gaps as it'll never cure.I tore down my ej22's oil pump and oven cleaner'd all the varnish off (cover & rotor, etc.) then used some anaerobic sealant about 2 years ago now and think the car has logged around 15k+ miles. Been running a mechanical oil gauge via copper line run through a LONG section of vacuum hose to isolate and protect. Anyhow, pressure cold (low 50's ambient temp) is 75-80 psi idling then it'll taper to around 10-15 psi at idle with 10w 30 synthetic, which I think is OK. I'd definitely try and get some readings after reassembly to be safe, and do NOT start the engine with a dry oil pump rotor. Edited October 20, 2015 by Bushwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 thanks all...glad to realize I was not dreaming the recommendation to use the ultra grey about the oil pump o-ring....yeah I remember someone saying to dab a little to keep it in place during assy Bushwick---or others----so I should seal the back plate on the oil pump also huh? It's been so long I forgot --or I am just getting old I never heard about priming the oil pump...! Can I leave the plugs in while disconnecting injectors and spark/ (I'm lazy--I just installed the plugs lol) Believe it or not, the hard part of this T belt job will be finding timing belt covers---not the front but the back ones that bolt to the engine-----the stinking bolts were frozen and cracked the covers when loosening--destroyed And I assume no 2.5 covers would fit this 95 2.2L right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 another question-----the "jiggle " pin or whatever its called on the oem thermostat-----I forget....does that need to be positioned in a certain way?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 For oil pump priming - get a socket adapter that you can chuck in a drill. Spin the pump until you feel it load up, before installing the timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The spring portion of the T stat goes into the block side. Should only fit one way(as the oem/stant 48457 will be too long to go in incorrectly). Would only use either of the aforementioned T stats. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 For oil pump priming - get a socket adapter that you can chuck in a drill. Spin the pump until you feel it load up, before installing the timing belt. This doesn't work on EJ engines. The pump rotor is driven directly by the crankshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 For oil pump priming - get a socket adapter that you can chuck in a drill. Spin the pump until you feel it load up, before installing the timing belt.For the non-turbo EJ engines the jiggle pin should be positioned in the 12 o'clock position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 This is the Subaru sealant list and comparable aftermarket list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Yeah, that's the list I remember seeing--lo, those many years ago! Thanks, Legacy 777. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Oh nuts, got mixed up. I've done a lot more on EA82s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 12 o'clock...in relation to what? not sure what direction I should be looking from...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 oh...I have another interesting question......this is in regards to the T belt tensioner...the 4" cylindrical one (looks like a steel rod) On this tutorial someone made..... http://lovehorsepower.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48:1995-subaru-legacy-outback-timing-belt-and-water-pump-replacement&catid=10:subaru-legacy&Itemid=64 .........More than 1/2 way down it says the following about installing it: Move the tensioner all the way to the right side and just make the two bolts hand tight. It shows a pic of looking at the engine from the FRONT of the car Now I assume he means if you are in the drivers seat...push it right. This would lock the tensioner as close as possible to the pulley If you moved it to the right while looking from the front of the car.....you would be moving the tensioner farther from the pulley Looking for agreement here or correction about my logic (which has been known to be flawed now and then LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I never heard about priming the oil pump...! I think I put fresh oil on the rotor surfaces to avoid metal on metal and made sure there was some in a cavity. Can't remember if it was hand cranked a bit then bumped it with the starter or just bumped it (2 surgeries in 2 years tend to fog out the mind any more) a bit then cranked once pressure was there. Extended cranking should probably pull fuel pump fuse and disconnect the coil though I think I only did the coil. Maybe others will suggest a more "correct" method. Main thing I was worried about was was it being bone dry, but maybe these are hardier than they let on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 bgambino--poor use of terminology on the tutorial writer's part! He was saying right or left from his point of view, looking at the engine. Install the tensioner hydraulic tube, just finger tight, and slide it toward the driver's side. Next get your belt all lined up properly. Then slide the tube as far as you can toward the passenger's side and tighten it in place. Then you can pull the pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 12 o'clock...in relation to what? not sure what direction I should be looking from...?I'm sorry, I had a brain fart. On the non-turbo engines, it doesn't matter the orientation of the jiggle valve since the t-stat is oriented horizontally. For reference, on the turbo engines the t-stat is oriented vertically so the jiggle valve needs to be oriented in the 12 o'clock position. Hopefully these pictures help clarify that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) OOPs brain fart!! O. Edited October 22, 2015 by ocei77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm sorry, I had a brain fart. On the non-turbo engines, it doesn't matter the orientation of the jiggle valve since the t-stat is oriented horizontally. Subaru does specify an orientation for the jiggle valve even on non-turbo engines. Its either straight forward, or straight back, but I don't remember which off-hand. I'm not sure it makes a huge difference, but the wax pellet is offset from center on the thermostat, so correct orientation of the jiggle valve can make a difference in temperature regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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