jmoss5723 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 My brother just bought 1996 impreza outback with valve cover gaskets that are practically gushing. Someone has tightened those 12-sided bolts down WAY too tight. I've sprayed PB Blaster on them. I've tried hitting the wrench with a hammer. I sorta tried the torch, but there are so many hoses and wires that I'm afraid I'll burn something. Our next step is going to be to put the car back together and bring the engine up to operating temp, then try again with it hot. We should be able to get an impact gun on some of the bolts if we pull out the battery, washer bottle, and air intake. Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to get these bolts out without breaking something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailcutr Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 For gawd sakes dont use air tools. Maybe have your dad help you if they are that tight. Warm it to temp and go get dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoss5723 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 For gawd sakes dont use air tools. Maybe have your dad help you if they are that tight. Warm it to temp and go get dad. I'm not looking for dumbass condescending remarks. I'm a grown man who does not need his elderly father's help to turn a bolt. I'm sure that I could easily apply enough force to snap the head off of the bolt, I'm looking for good ways to avoid doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailcutr Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Oh got it sorry. Thought you were a young fella. An impact would surely loosen it if it doesn't wreck the bolt first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoss5723 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Oh got it sorry. Thought you were a young fella. An impact would surely loosen it if it doesn't wreck the bolt first. Well now I feel like a jerk. I thought you were trying to be clever/rude. If you really thought I was a kid, I can see how getting Dad might be helpful. At this point in my life, I am the dad who comes to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 They're supposed to be 6 point bolts. Are they 12 point on yours or just really dirty/rusty? Sometimes, yeah, they get pretty stuck. It helps if you can tilt the engine up on the side you're working, and smack the head of the bolt with a hammer. I usually put a socket on the bolt to keep from deforming the hex. Use a 6 point socket. No 12 points or you'll just round it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoss5723 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 All the others I've done are 6 point, but these are definitely 12. Must be replacement bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Uhh, that or someone used vice grips last time. Maybe you should do the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Try to tighten it first to break the tension. By the sounds of it you are going to need quite a few new ones. They definitely sb 6 pt oem. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 If they are that messed up, you could drill off the heads of the bolt and then grab the body of the bolt once you have the valve covers off. you may have to drop the exhaust and remove the mount bolts and pitch stopper to raise the engine enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 wow, what a crazy mess. 12 point bolts? that's definitely not a Subaru bolt then. i was going to say what larry said and just shear them off - but - if the tigtheness is due to the wrong sized threads/pitch then the bolts are probably galled in place, not just tigth at the seating surface of the heads. although releasing that tension at the heads should still help. is that why you're reluctant to shear them off, or what else are you thinking/seeing? have you tried a 3 foot extension or 5 foot extension? what happens? are they all like this - or just one or two? if they do start to turn and they're very tight I would go very slowly - turn them half a turn, then go do another one or take a break. there is localized intense heating which quickens the shearing process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoss5723 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 We didn't get a chance to mess with it further yesterday, but they are pristine 12pt bolts. They aren't mangled in any way (yet). I tried a 3 foot breaker and it felt like it was about to live up to it's name, if you know what I mean. In the process of putting everything back together that we took apart in bringing this car back to life (TB, radiator, etc.) so that we could try working on it after bringing it up to temp, we hit a snag which has delayed us a little bit. There is a T connector (P/N 11821AA450) in the vacuum hose about 4 inches before the PCV valve that was so brittle it just crumbled when I tried to disconnect the hose to change the PCV. After driving all over trying to find a similar fitting, we ended up having to order one at the dealer for $10. For the purpose of bringing the car up to temp to try to break the bolts loose on the VC, we're going to have to just put a cap on the PCV valve (or maybe thread a bolt into it's place if anyone knows the size and thread?) to eliminate the huge vacuum leak. We'll try this all again today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 12-point bolts? Maybe you need a Torx socket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoss5723 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 12-point bolts? Maybe you need a Torx socket. Nope. Just a standard 12 point socket. Torx is a 6 point star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Yes, my bad. Torx is indeed 6-point. I just cannot visualize a 12-point bolt-head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I've seen 12 point bolts on construction equipment. Seemed like grade 8 or other high strength grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Subaru head bolts are 12 point. Some of the block bolts are too. It's not uncommon, but they generally tend to be larger size because small 12 point bolt heads are more likely to round off. Good thing is the bolts don't actually go into the head. They go into the steel retainer caps for the rocker shaft. If you snap them off the rocker shafts can be removed and disassembled so you can drill the broken bits out. Or get junkyard rocker assemblies. I'm thinking they are cross threaded or the wrong thread pitch/cheapo replacements because someone rounded the heads on the original bolts. Put what you can on them and just give them a couple quick snaps. If you need the car operable for the next day, get some rocker shafts and the correct bolts from a junkyard car and just plan on breaking all of those off. They might crack loose if you put some oomph on them. Never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I'd do it after getting the engine up to normal operating temperature also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoss5723 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 They've been sitting in liquid wrench so that if they're seized that will help. We're just going to get the car up to temp and give 'em hell with the impact and see if we can't get them out of there. If they break, we'll deal it with it, I guess. The ones that can't be reached with the impact will be tackled with a big cheater bar. Everyone keep your fingers crossed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoss5723 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 So guys, I don't know if I'm more disappointed in myself or disappointed in you guys for not figuring this one out. It turns out that the EJ22 valve covers do not attach at all like those on the EA81, EJ25, or EZ30 that I am familiar with. In the picture below you can see the six (3 top and 3 bottom) 12-point bolts that I've been talking about. Notice that they are still in place, but the valve cover is off... Oops! I guess this is what happens if you work on a dirty engine in a poorly lit garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Head bolts!!!!! Good thing you weren't able to loosen them or you'd be doing HG's. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I thought it odd they would use those for valve covers. I haven't worked on a Subaru engine with those for head bolts. That's why I was sticking with only geneeal information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Ha! That's worth a good facepalm! At least the job got a whole lot easier. Been there a few times when I take a break and review a problem and find the answer staring me right in the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoss5723 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 As you might guess, the VCs came off without incident now that we turned the right bolts. Couldn't have been easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 ha ha ha, that's awesome and great news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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