Is this worth it? EJ22t high milage

[nighthawk2006]

So i have been looking into legacy turbos for a while and came across thishttps://boulder.craigslist.org/cto/6031023876.html   Obviously this price is way to high considering the miles. But what does everyone here think? The timing belt , water pump, and pulleys were changed 40k ago. He said the headgaskets have not been done yet. Anyone have any experience with high mileage legacy turbos? Any advice or things to look out for would be greatly appreciated!

Edited March 16, 2017 by nighthawk2006

[nighthawk2006]

link is working now

Edited March 16, 2017 by nighthawk2006

[AdventureSubaru]

Depends on why you are buying it.

 

If you are looking for good, reliable, long term transportation - no. Get a naturally aspirated Subaru for half the price that will last as long with cheaper maintenance.

 

If you're wanting something blazing fast for fun at the track - no. These were zippy but not powerhouses. You can get the same HP from an EJ25 or far more from an EG33 or EZ30 equipped subaru. (Again with cheaper maintenance costs)

 

If you appreciate the uniqueness and relative scarcity of the turbo legacy and want to drive one of the few remaining that isn't rusted out or beat to death - yes. There's value in driving what you love. Most of us hobbyists like our vehicles to be unique and stand out from the crowd. Whether visually or performance wise. Lifted, lowered, turbo, H6 swaps, WRX powered brats. It's a big part of why this forum exists and has such helpful and loyal members. WE LOVE THESE CARS.

 

If this is a car you can fall in love with and spend a little more to purchase/maintain - go for it. There aren't many left. They're good cars. Turbos are fun. This one looks clean.

Edited March 16, 2017 by AdventureSubaru

[nighthawk2006]

Depends on why you are buying it.

 

If you are looking for good, reliable, long term transportation - no. Get a naturally aspirated Subaru for half the price that will last as long with cheaper maintenance.

 

If you're wanting something blazing fast for fun at the track - no. These were zippy but not powerhouses. You can get the same HP from an EJ25 or far more from an EG33 or EZ30 equipped subaru. (Again with cheaper maintenance costs)

 

If you appreciate the uniqueness and relative scarcity of the turbo legacy and want to drive one of the few remaining that isn't rusted out or beat to death - yes. There's value in driving what you love. Most of us hobbyists like our vehicles to be unique and stand out from the crowd. Whether visually or performance wise. Lifted, lowered, turbo, H6 swaps, WRX powered brats. It's a big part of why this forum exists and has such helpful and loyal members. WE LOVE THESE CARS.

 

If this is a car you can fall in love with and spend a little more to purchase/maintain - go for it. There aren't many left. They're good cars. Turbos are fun. This one looks clean.

Beautiful write up! I appreciate the time! Is thay to say this model is unreliable overall? Or just more so than the NA model?

[AdventureSubaru]

Just more so. Anytime you add a turbo, you'll bring the reliability down some. There's a reason this one is closing in on 300k and still running fine. I'd rather buy a high miles car thats been cared for than a 80,000 mile car that trashed/beat up. My wife's first outback was bought at 275k. We sold it a few years later at 382k. (still running as well as ever)

[nighthawk2006]

 

Just more so. Anytime you add a turbo, you'll bring the reliability down some. There's a reason this one is closing in on 300k and still running fine. I'd rather buy a high miles car thats been cared for than a 80,000 mile car that trashed/beat up. My wife's first outback was bought at 275k. We sold it a few years later at 382k. (still running as well as ever)

damn that's a ton of miles. I'm obsessed with these older subies. I wonder how much longer the head gaskets will hold out for

[GreaseMonkey03]

Subarus are among the easiest cars for people to work on themselves. If you can't or won't do everything yourself, and I do mean everything, or can't dish out the bucks to have someone else do it, steer clear. older subarus are a labor of love, but a labor still.

[AdventureSubaru]

damn that's a ton of miles. I'm obsessed with these older subies. I wonder how much longer the head gaskets will hold out for

 

EJ22s were not usually prone to failure of the HGs. I don't know as much about the turbos. But they are cake to replace. Don't even have to pull the valve covers. I've done headgaskets on non turbo EJ22s start to finish in a day.

[nighthawk2006]

 

EJ22s were not usually prone to failure of the HGs. I don't know as much about the turbos. But they are cake to replace. Don't even have to pull the valve covers. I've done headgaskets on non turbo EJ22s start to finish in a day.

did you have to pull the engine to do it as well?

[matt167]

You don't have to pull engine. But it's faster in my experience, at least for a manual.

[nighthawk2006]

You don't have to pull engine. But it's faster in my experience, at least for a manual.

These legacy turbos are automatic. What would be the process to remove heads without the engine pull?

[matt167]

Sometimes you have to jack up.the engine to get the bolts out.. The ej22 is the easiest engine to do gaskets on but you still have to stand on your head to get them done that way. I prefer to pull engine either way. It's not a lot of work even for an auto, but you can do everything effortless with the engine on a stand while doing a full service

[AdventureSubaru]

Ive done it both ways. So much easier to just pull the motor.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/159902-1990-2004-ej18-ej22-ej25-diy-complete-engine-remove-and-reinstall-guide/?do=findComment&comment=1351416

 

The videos by miles fox linked at the beginning give the head gasket part of the job.

[GeneralDisorder]

They are getting very hard to get parts for. It is not a cheap vehicle to maintain - you'll end up wanting to upgrade it and it's not quite like a WRX. There are ways to do it but it's not any cheaper than a WRX and starts off quite a bit slower. That's really high mileage - I would find a lower mileage example and remember - a turbo car this old is a project car. You better have something else to drive that's reliable. 

 

GD

[nighthawk2006]

They are getting very hard to get parts for. It is not a cheap vehicle to maintain - you'll end up wanting to upgrade it and it's not quite like a WRX. There are ways to do it but it's not any cheaper than a WRX and starts off quite a bit slower. That's really high mileage - I would find a lower mileage example and remember - a turbo car this old is a project car. You better have something else to drive that's reliable.

 

GD

which parts in particular? And I'm assuming you can't use any parts from the na version of the motor?

[GeneralDisorder]

Very few parts interchange. Some gaskets, the crankshaft, rods, and bearings (though none are worth having if you are in that far).... that's about it. The turbo specific plumbing parts that are plastic and rubber will all be shot and you can't buy the majority of them anymore. Which means you have to replace with custom made stainless tubing and silicone couplers if you want it any kind of right and have close to the factory tight bends, etc. VF11 turbos are pretty tough to find in good shape so you'll likely end up getting a TD04 from a WRX which requires plumbing changes and tuning which the only viable option for currently is ESL in the UK. A complete ESL setup with JDM EJ20G ECU to run it is around $1000 plus whatever you pay for the laptop to interface it and then you have to find a tuner that's willing to learn a completely new tuning environment just for you since he will likely never do another one..... a turbocharger upgrade will run typically into the thousands because everything is custom and very few people build these cars. 

 

That's just one of many paths that owners of these cars typically go down. I should know - I've had a 91 SS for about 10 years.

 

GD

[nighthawk2006]

Very few parts interchange. Some gaskets, the crankshaft, rods, and bearings (though none are worth having if you are in that far).... that's about it. The turbo specific plumbing parts that are plastic and rubber will all be shot and you can't buy the majority of them anymore. Which means you have to replace with custom made stainless tubing and silicone couplers if you want it any kind of right and have close to the factory tight bends, etc. VF11 turbos are pretty tough to find in good shape so you'll likely end up getting a TD04 from a WRX which requires plumbing changes and tuning which the only viable option for currently is ESL in the UK. A complete ESL setup with JDM EJ20G ECU to run it is around $1000 plus whatever you pay for the laptop to interface it and then you have to find a tuner that's willing to learn a completely new tuning environment just for you since he will likely never do another one..... a turbocharger upgrade will run typically into the thousands because everything is custom and very few people build these cars.

 

That's just one of many paths that owners of these cars typically go down. I should know - I've had a 91 SS for about 10 years.

 

GD

WOW. You know your stuff man. I appreciate this response. Did you have to get custom fabrication done for the plumbing then?

[1997reduxe]

i was looking at a much newer legacy probably 2010 it was some 4500? or less  i wondered why so cheap then i researched about the turbo it turns out if you dont maintain it change oil etc it will i guess destroy itself. that doesnt seem to be a problem here it all comes down to how you liike it its pretty much money for a 92. that said i just bought a 95 for 2500 and its my fifth, all from the 90s, its the best ive had yet.

[wtdash]

+1 to all listed above.

 

 

The #1 issue w/these, in my book, is how many modifcations (mods) have been done. Due to how (relatively) easy they are to mod, most have probably seen one or a hundred upgrades, and then it comes down to how well those mods were done.

 

 

 

If the car is still mostly stock AND maintained, it'll keep going. That price is high for the miles but depends on the condition.

 

But I would be wary of the transmission w/those miles, too. The 4EAT in these is extra tough, but not invincible, and if it fails you'll be VERY hard-pressed to find another. You can use a transmission from other Subarus but it won't be built for the turbo's extra power. EDIT: See below....requires the Rear Diff to be replaced, but a good option.

 

Do NOT expect to buy this and take it to the dealer for turbo-parts related repair. They can do the timing belt, tune-ups, etc. but if a fuel injector  or the BCS (boost control solenoid),  etc. fails,  you're SOL.

 

As noted, many of the turbo-specific parts are not avl. but if you're comfortable w/customizing, go for it. Some of the WRX stuff can be used, and even the older WRX stuff can be bought from some of the Japan  parts suppliers. The '92-'96 WRX/STi sold overseas was a close match. 

 

 

A good resource for the 1st Gen Legacy, incl. turbo models and used parts: http://bbs.legacycentral.org/index.php

 

Also, if you get power-hungry check out http://www.robtune.com/.... although he's currently not shipping new products due to similar issues w/parts availability (as of 2/2017). 

 

Bottom-line...don't buy it if it 'needs work' and you've not worked on Subies in the past.

Edited March 21, 2017 by wtdash

[GeneralDisorder]

Actually the 98 Outback 4EAT is as strong or stronger (updated design too) and 4.44 ratio for better acceleration. I've done a couple swaps with them.

 

GD

[impostor]

Most of the turbo specific PCV hoses are still available but the plastic pieces are not. You can also still get the Samco induction hose kit which includes the turbo inlet, MAF, and BPV hose for a 92-96 WRX. The turbo inlet ancillary fittings are not quite the same as the legacy, but very close.

[GeneralDisorder]

Or for way less than Samco stuff shipped from the UK you can have a good exhaust guy TIG you up some proper stainless and use silicone couplers.

 

Most of the people that own these cars haven't got the money for either one and end up at Home Depot doing horrific things with PVC plumbing bits and accordion radiator hoses, zip ties, and JB weld. It's just aweful.

 

GD

[impostor]

Agreed. The guy I work with can weld just about anything I can dream up. He did my AWIC hard lines using stock mounting points. I got the Samco kit new for $160 so I figured it was a time vs cost thing.

 

I was looking at the coffee cup mod again and some pretty atrocious things came up. Very few are cleanly done. I was chatting with Matt a while back and he said you guys have someone that makes them for you?

[impostor]

 

But I would be wary of the transmission w/those miles, too. The 4EAT in these is extra tough, but not invincible, and if it fails you'll be VERY hard-pressed to find another. You can use a transmission from other Subarus but it won't be built for the turbo's extra power. EDIT: See below....requires the Rear Diff to be replaced, but a good option.

I have two 93 turbos. A wagon and an automatic sedan. 0/2 on the trannies when I got them. I bought the wagon with a failed pinion shaft bearing. Destroyed both gears and cracked the diff case when it happened. The sedan is a recent purchase and has atf getting in the diff, delays bad in drive, and slips.

[GeneralDisorder]

Yeah Steven my exhaust guy does turbo inlet / silencer deletes. He's made about 4 I think. No one buys them. He did a prototype on mine then built a jig for them and we have installed a couple. No one wants to spend the coin on a product that actually solves the problem cleanly and forever. Though honestly the v3/v4 JDM intake and dual cam heads solves the problem too and is a much more worthwhile way to spend money. The 22T was a fun little motor but the most fun you can have in G1 Legacy turbo is a 257 swap with 25D heads and v3/v4 intake. You can now find used 255/257 blocks with broken ring lands for $250 to $500 used and drop in forged pistons..... I suppose it's not as simple as it seems looking down from the enormous pile of used parts and junk we have laying around the shop. I could throw one together for the price of some gaskets. But the used 2.5 parts are starting tout show up CHEAP and 22T stuff is getting rare.

 

GD