briankk Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Having failed to find a useable auto box for my '94 SVX, I've found a fellow who will sell me his STI six-speed. Nobody seems to know if it will actually bolt to the 3.3 engine, Subaru could care less. Anybody out there with experience in this swap? I've heard rumor that the 6-speed is a lot stronger than the various 5-speeds, but Soob trans seem to be a pretty slippery subject.. If it will bolt up, I do know to check the final drive ratios and spline count.. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 check NASIOC - be sure to search and read before posting - those guys can be cranky with noobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golucky66 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Too bad your across the country. I have a svx tranny that was rebuild 10k ago 100kish on it total) that is from a 94. Shifted good too (before the car got totaled ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Scott Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 The 6-speed can be done, and it would be very cool. But pack a lunch, cause it's gonna be a LOT of work! Much easier would be a later model 4eat from an Outback or Forester. Many SVX owners have used these with the 4.44 final drive ratio and have gotten much better performance and durability. There are many low mile JDM 4eats on ebay as well for cheap. Check out the SVX nation facebook page. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Too bad your across the country. I have a svx tranny that was rebuild 10k ago 100kish on it total) that is from a 94. Shifted good too (before the car got totaled ) Hmm. Whatcha asking? Was the rebuild guaranteed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 The 6-speed can be done, and it would be very cool. But pack a lunch, cause it's gonna be a LOT of work! Much easier would be a later model 4eat from an Outback or Forester. Many SVX owners have used these with the 4.44 final drive ratio and have gotten much better performance and durability. There are many low mile JDM 4eats on ebay as well for cheap. Check out the SVX nation facebook page. This is California. The smog police would crush my car if I install an OBD2 gearbox. I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golucky66 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I have no idea. Lol tbh its just been sitting in the car since my accident. I've been trying to figure out what to do with the car. I'd love to get another svx but I just can't right now. I'm assuming the rebuild has (or had) some kind of warranty on it. Not sure if it still applies (sorry) I could see if I could find some paperwork for the rebuild. I have it somewhere. Just no idea where. I'm assuming you're talking about the 6-speed as OBD2? Because the tranny is obd1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Scott Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 AFAIK, there is no difference between an OBD1 and 2 transmission or the related electronics. I would think they would be much more anxious to crush an SVX with an ECM that has been "fooled" to think it came from the factory with a manual transmission... which none of them had. Besides, OBD1 is like Shultz... it knows nothing...NOTHING!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 I have no idea. Lol tbh its just been sitting in the car since my accident. I've been trying to figure out what to do with the car. I'd love to get another svx but I just can't right now. I'm assuming the rebuild has (or had) some kind of warranty on it. Not sure if it still applies (sorry) I could see if I could find some paperwork for the rebuild. I have it somewhere. Just no idea where. I'm assuming you're talking about the 6-speed as OBD2? Because the tranny is obd1. The 6-speed and any of the later 4EATs are all OBD2. I think it's possible to fangle the OBD1 ECU to cope with the manual OBD2, but the OBD2 4EAT has 7 solenoids talking to the TCU, OBD1 would think it was speaking pig latin.. Of course, you could add and OBD2 TCU and wiring, but the OBD1 ECU wouldn't know what to do about it. An OBD2 ECU would be looking for sensors and things not found on the EG33 engine. Big mess would ensue.. Smog police would hurl their little purse in a corner, stamp their little feet, and hold their breath 'till their face turned blue. Not the desired outcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) That is not true. All 4EAT's are the same electrically from 88 to 98. There is no such thing as an "OBD-II" transmission. Only the engine computer was required to be compliant with this mandated specification. You can straight install a 98 Legacy Outback 4.44 final drive transmission and matching rear diff. You should also get the matching TCU for the proper shift points. It will plug directly into the SVX harness. GD Edited June 6, 2017 by GeneralDisorder 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 That is not true. All 4EAT's are the same electrically from 88 to 98. There is no such thing as an "OBD-II" transmission. Only the engine computer was required to be compliant with this mandated specification. You can straight install a 98 Legacy Outback 4.44 final drive transmission and matching rear diff. You should also get the matching TCU for the proper shift points. It will plug directly into the SVX harness. GD I'm talking post '98, I think it was called a "phase 2" transmission, had the solenoid and logic for the center diff, and I think the valve body was re-drilled/calibrated, as it has 6 solenoids, vs. (4?) in the phase one auto box. I think the oil flow through the valve body was changed too, see for instance the external filter in all the later trans. Suppose you wanted to delete that filter, could you just plug it off, or would you have to re-route the oilback through the base? I've read somwhere that the oil filter wont fit the SVX, interferes with exhaust or cross member or some such, thought I'd just put filter in trans lines the old fashioned way, or perhaps try for the late model remote mount kit.. Any way I don't think OBD1 TCU would enable the center dif, OBD2 (or "phase 2" TCU would handle that, but it couldn't talk to the OBD1 ECU, in case that is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 The trans your talking about has a side filter and started use in 1999. That was a P-II trans... Transmissions up to 1998 are functionally identical to your SVX trans except the diff ratio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 6 speed swaps have been done - should be able to google it. Subaru almost never is a proper source for parts interchanges and definitely not for swaps. They're not allowed to do such things so you're asking people that have no practice or motivation to do so. And if you're just stopping in or calling, the service staff that answers the phone usually have no mechanical experience at all - you're asking a secretary for eye surgery technical recommendations. Just google six speed swaps and scan for pertinent info, not guesses and idle banter which are hallmarks of Internet forums. You should clarify the topic - it sounds like you're thinking differently than others. everyone here is giving you the standard and easy repair to install a 4EAT which is essentially the same transmission the car came with and would breeze through CA smog. But you seem bent on installing a different transmission than they're recommending. Why? What are you after? That should get folks on the same page. Warranty is likely not valid. 1. It wouldnt apply to other vehicles. 2. It only applies if installed by trained mechanics and shop. Technically warranties don't apply to DIY folks. They'll warranty it anyway sometimes but unlikely if the car was wrecked, totaled, swapped and shipped across country to a second buyer who installed it themselves. Sure ask but it's highly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Scott Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 http://www.ebay.com/itm/95-97-LEGACY-OUTBACK-BG9-TRANSMISSION-AUTO-4WD-TZ102Z1ABA-GEARBOX-EJ25-DOHC-2-5L-/381856181300?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) They did away with the filter in 07. In any case you can't swap to 99+ because the EG33 computer won't work with it. 88 to 98 4EAT's all have the same center diff solenoid driven wet clutch as the 99+. There is very little difference. Unless you are talking about the WRX 4EAT which had a slightly different arrangement but is equally not possible to swap. The 6 speed can be swapped - no problem electrically. The DCCD system can be run by a stand alone controller (DCCDPro). It needs no ECU interface. GD Edited June 6, 2017 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 The trans your talking about has a side filter and started use in 1999. That was a P-II trans... Transmissions up to 1998 are functionally identical to your SVX trans except the diff ratio Understood.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Cancelled the 6-speed deal, can't get info, and I don't want to spend a chunk of money to have my mechanic hold the thing up against the engine and announce I'll need an adaptor... Posed a question to CA BAR concerning legality of Phase 2 (OBD2?) 4EAT swap, waiting to hear frome them. Supposing it's actually legal, I have the option of various Phase 2 auto boxes, including one from an WRX. Is any advantage to WRX 4EAT,, or is it just an Outback trnas w/more chrome plating by marketing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) The 6 speed does not require an adaptor. The EG33 has the same bell housing as every other EJ including the STI. You CANNOT use a phase-II automatic. Period. The engine computer will not communicate with the WRX auto trans computer. It was not designed to do so. The speed sensor system is not compatible with the EG33 computer and you will have codes that you cannot get rid of. Will not smog. No way, no how. There is also NO ADVANTAGE to using the phase II trans. Just get a 98 Outback or Forester 4.44 final drive trans, diff, and computer. It will bolt right in and work with no modifications at all. The early Phase-II transmissions suffer from delayed engagement and the filter causes fitment issues - you would have to use the 3.0 trans remote filter arrangement... in any case it won't work. GD Edited June 6, 2017 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Will the 4.44 final drive be swappable into my LSD R180? I think the Outback and Forester both use open R160s. I'm thinking that the main difference between the rear ends would be that the 180 has physically larger gears.. So, would I have to find an WRX/STI R180 in 4.44 to replace my existing 3.54 R180? Thats an expensive part.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 The SVX came stock with an R160. It's a direct swap. The R180 is only used in STI's. The VLSD's are worn out, useless junk by 50k miles. There is no easy answer to this but you *can* source a 4.44 VLSD from a Forester XT, etc. Not that it will be any good unless it's virtually new. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 The SVX came stock with an R160. It's a direct swap. The R180 is only used in STI's. The VLSD's are worn out, useless junk by 50k miles. There is no easy answer to this but you *can* source a 4.44 VLSD from a Forester XT, etc. Not that it will be any good unless it's virtually new. GD Actually, I think all SVXs came with R180 rear gears. Mind did, and the car I just sold, too. However, just got off the phone with BAR smog tech guy, in Sacramento. He said that there was no way a CA car could pass smog w/either phase 2 trans or manual trans. Only legal option is phase 1 auto box. Only other option is to move to one of the free states... Local yard had '95 outback with TZ102Z2ABA-CH 4EAT installed. Would this do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 6 speed swaps have been done - should be able to google it. Subaru almost never is a proper source for parts interchanges and definitely not for swaps. They're not allowed to do such things so you're asking people that have no practice or motivation to do so. And if you're just stopping in or calling, the service staff that answers the phone usually have no mechanical experience at all - you're asking a secretary for eye surgery technical recommendations. Just google six speed swaps and scan for pertinent info, not guesses and idle banter which are hallmarks of Internet forums. You should clarify the topic - it sounds like you're thinking differently than others. everyone here is giving you the standard and easy repair to install a 4EAT which is essentially the same transmission the car came with and would breeze through CA smog. But you seem bent on installing a different transmission than they're recommending. Why? What are you after? That should get folks on the same page. Warranty is likely not valid. 1. It wouldnt apply to other vehicles. 2. It only applies if installed by trained mechanics and shop. Technically warranties don't apply to DIY folks. They'll warranty it anyway sometimes but unlikely if the car was wrecked, totaled, swapped and shipped across country to a second buyer who installed it themselves. Sure ask but it's highly unlikely. Sorry for lack of clairty. I was speaking with another member who said he had good rebuilt trans from a wreck that was only 10k miles into the warranty, I asked him if he still had the (rebuild) warranty, sometime transferable. Not too worried about violating '94 Soob warranty, if there was one. After chat with smog boffin, it seems only option is to acquire or rebuild a suitable phase 1 4EAT. So..What is the strongest phase 1 4EAT? Anybody... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Actually, I think all SVXs came with R180 rear gears. Mind did, and the car I just sold, too. You're going to have to prove that one. They all came with R160's. You are mistaken. Run the part number for the rear diff cover. You'll see..... The 95 will not be the one you want. That year was not a "real" Outback and I don't think it has the 4.44 final drive. The late 97/98 4EAT is the one you want. They changed some things internally and they are stronger. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru Scott Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Uuuummm, if you really have an R180 LSD... I'll TRADE you... even steven for a nice used R160 in whatever ratio you like! You'll be set! Seriously though, I think you are confusing phase 2 with OBD2. Big difference. A late 90's 4EAT will be a direct replacement that will plug and play. Your car won't even know, so how could anyone else? Phase 2 occurred in 99, 98 for Forester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 You're going to have to prove that one. They all came with R160's. You are mistaken. Run the part number for the rear diff cover. You'll see..... The 95 will not be the one you want. That year was not a "real" Outback and I don't think it has the 4.44 final drive. The late 97/98 4EAT is the one you want. They changed some things internally and they are stronger. GD Quite possible I'm wrong, not in a position to argue the point now. Don't really care if its 160, 180, or Ford 9", as long as it has LSD and same gear ration as transaxle, which is the point, you see. An now on track for '98 4EAT, TZ102Z2DBA-KF If that will do. Pretty sure it's 4.44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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