kel Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Hi, my name is Kel and I am looking for advice on an old suby I wish to purchase. Ok so here goes... There's an 87 wagon 4x4 with "237,000 miles 5 speed, good clutch! Needs a timing belt. This car does not run currently will need towed!! $125 for my ASE master mechanic to fix. plus cost of belt!" (copied from ad). So the guy wants $200 bucks for me to tow it out of his driveway. When I talked to him on the phone he said that someone who was test driving it was trying to get the 4 wheel drive disengaged and I guess the dude pulled the 4wd lever while it was in gear and rolling (or something like that). According to the owner this is what caused the timing belt to break, also he said that the valves should be ok on this engine. The questions are: 1. Can incorrectly disengaging the 4wd cause the timing belt to break? 2. Did any of the 87 wagons come with interference (pistons can hit valves) engines? 3. Assuming that what he told me was correct, would it be conceivable for someone with pretty good mechanical ability (me) to do this TB in his friend's garage in a day or two? What kind of tools would I need (besides the obvious metric socket set, extra deep wells, pliers, etc.)? I would plan on buying a manual if it works out, any suggestions besides Haynes? I am excited about the possibility of getting my very own suby, even if it is a wagon!! Thanks, Kel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 C'mon, wagons are the only way to go!!! I've never heard of breaking the timing belt that way, but stranger things have happened. I guess if the engine stopped really suddenly it could. Changing a timing belt on that car is not very hard. Depending on your experience it will take anywhere from 2 hours to a day. The EA82 engine in that car was never an interference engine, so it's perfectly okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHIM Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 He's full of it if he's saying the belt was caused by the tranny, i don't see any way possible that anything you did to the tranny would ever effect somthing like that on a motor. ~CHIM~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kel Posted October 28, 2005 Author Share Posted October 28, 2005 Ok, so what do you think might have caused it, and do you think I'm looking at more than a timing belt issue. Thanks for the quick responses, Kel He's full of it if he's saying the belt was caused by the tranny, i don't see any way possible that anything you did to the tranny would ever effect somthing like that on a motor. ~CHIM~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kel Posted October 28, 2005 Author Share Posted October 28, 2005 I know I didn't give a lot of information, to clarify, I'm just looking to see if anyone has any suggestion on how to verify the seller's claims (that it only needs a timing belt) given the car's present condition. Also what special tools would I need to bring to do a TB. Thanks for your advice and expertise, Kel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuclearBacon Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 wow, your story sounds like mine.... Found a gl-10 sedan 150 miles from me... had to tow home... for about 200 bucks.. and 240,000 on the odometer... it had a bad lash adjuster and destroyed the passenger head... i agree with the timing belt NOT breaking under something like that.... the timing belt could have broken if it was 240,000 miles old. *raises eyebrow* dude, i'd go for it... if anything, to learn about these cars, i've learned so much, and mine screams up hills now i vote *thumbs up!* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Ok, so what do you think might have caused it, and do you think I'm looking at more than a timing belt issue. Thanks for the quick responses, Kel Age. 237000 thousand miles at 80K change intervals asuuming he changed them regulary, which i suspect he did not.. Its age pure and simple. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I know I didn't give a lot of information, to clarify, I'm just looking to see if anyone has any suggestion on how to verify the seller's claims (that it only needs a timing belt) given the car's present condition. Also what special tools would I need to bring to do a TB. Thanks for your advice and expertise, Kel Kel: Sometimes these "seller claims" take on a life of their own. Without any reliable records, you'll have to draw your own conclusions on this one. If the issue is simply a broken timing belt, you can easily check them by prying off the knockouts on the timing belt covers and see if the belts have tension. If one has snapped, I would have to assume that this is the main problem. There could very well be other problems, but they would be unrelated to the belts. As far as the tranny, that is a seperate issue. I would try to assess whether this truly is an issue, or if it's just someone's imagination gone wild. Be assured that the tranny and belt issues are not related. good luck, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Age. 237000 thousand miles at 80K change intervals asuuming he changed them regulary, which i suspect he did not.. Its age pure and simple. nipper Not bad for 55k mile belts;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I did t-belts on my car in around 3 - 3 1/2 hours (and that was with 3 men watching me drinking beer and telling me I was doing it wrong. Ha! Showed them up - it runs better now than it did before (I think the old belts were off a tooth - probably a man did that, hehe). I'd go check the t-belts myself before I handed over $200...... I think it's a 10mm bolt to remove the covers. Don't take what the owner said to be as truth, because people lie. I bought my car with ''only needing radiator hoses, great running little car'' - it ended up it had a cracked block and a bad radiator and I had to swap in a different motor.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Timing belt probably broke because it was too old. These engines have a reputation for breaking timing belts, but from what I can tell, it's only because you CAN run a timing belt till it breaks on these engines. On most cars that would be asking for a new engine, so it takes on more urgency to actually replace it when you are supposed to. On EA-82's, there's no urgency. Usually what happens is a few teeth strip off the drivers side belt. It still looks fine if you pull the covers, but if you turn the engine over, it doesn't turn on that side. You can check by just looking to see if the rotor is turning in the disty when you crank it. If it isn't, the timing belt's stripped. After working on my VW rabbit last night which was designed by some sort of sadistic german engineer, I have a new appreciation for how incredibly easy subaru's are to work on. It's a great car to learn on, and you really only need three size sockets. 10, 12, and 14 (plus 17 for some of the larger bolts). None of the socket head, spline bolts, or four different sized bolts holding the same darn piece on that you can't even reach the bolts till after you've taken it off like the VW. Zeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Usually what happens is a few teeth strip off the drivers side belt. It still looks fine if you pull the covers, but if you turn the engine over, it doesn't turn on that side. You can check by just looking to see if the rotor is turning in the disty when you crank it. If it isn't, the timing belt's stripped. Zeke Excellent point!! This could throw you off if all you checked was belt tension. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Excellent point!! This could throw you off if all you checked was belt tension. John speaking from experience here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kel Posted October 28, 2005 Author Share Posted October 28, 2005 Wow you guys are on top of it!! I forgot about this yesterday but it seems he said something about the TB belt cover being off, came that way, and it doesn't have any plates on it. The more I think about it the fishier it gets, I'll try and talk to him so more. The car is at least an hour's drive from where I live, and I could afford it if all's it needs is a TB but I can't afford replacing tons of parts, unless I sell another car. But I want a suby dang-it!!! Hehe Kel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sregor13 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 If you do the timing belts then you should change all the Seals at the same time. It took me about 12 hours to do the timing belts and all the Seals. If the Car is rust free then it will be a good investment. I would have my concerns about the Tranny, but even then I would get the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kel Posted October 28, 2005 Author Share Posted October 28, 2005 If you do the timing belts then you should change all the Seals at the same time. It took me about 12 hours to do the timing belts and all the Seals. If the Car is rust free then it will be a good investment. I would have my concerns about the Tranny, but even then I would get the car. Can you be more specific about "all the seals" please? If I get it this will be my first suby and I don't have much experience with them yet. Thanks, Kel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Can you be more specific about "all the seals" please? If I get it this will be my first suby and I don't have much experience with them yet. Thanks, Kel A lot of people do the crank/cam and oil pump seals as part of the timing belt service interval (every 60K). Not a bad idea, if you are a "perfectionist" and have the time. The cost is low. However, since your timing belt covers are off, you could actually do the seals (or belts) on "as needed" basis. This is the biggest advantages of removing your timing belt covers. You'll be able to visually check for oil leaks, and if one does happen to spring a leak, you can can do it easily and quickly (ie before the oil gets all over the belts and engine bay). Some people insist on the covers, but in my mind, the avantages of running your belts naked, far outweigh the disadvantages. Just keep your hair tied back while the motor is running... good luck, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sregor13 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I would plan on getting a new Waterpump just because they are cheap and worth replacing while you are in there. You will have 2 Cam Seals, along with 2 O-Rings on the back side of the Cam Seal Housing, 1 Crankshaft Seal, I think there are 2 Oil Pump Seals. One is called a Mickey Mouse Gasket. It is kind of shaped like Mickey Mouse. So anyways when you get into where the Timing Belts are you can eaasily access the rest of this stuff. The directions found in Chiltons works pretty good. You will need a massive Socket for the Crankshaft Bolt? I think that is what it is called. I bought the Seal Puller but i dont think you really need it. You should be able to buy a kit with everything included. I got one on Ebay for 60-80 Bucks, came with both timing belts. There are more gaskets I am sure but these are the ones you want to do when you are replacing the timing belts. Just because of the redundant labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sregor13 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Those last 2 posts arrived almost within seconds of each other. If you are able to get the timing belt covers off without breaking them I will be surprised, unless you already have them off. Seems like the bolts go right into plastic and just strip instantly. I left mine off and have no regrets on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHIM Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Just tell the guy that if he's not being completly honest about whats all wrong with the car you will contact a nasty little cult that goes by the name of "THE USMB!":lol: ~CHIM~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarian Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 The trans being shifted on the fly would not hurt the timing belt. I've owned 8 or 9 of these wagons (sold most of them) and the timing belts are pretty easy to change. As for the checking the engine, see if it will turn over fairly easily. I found one that "needed a timing belt" and it had a cracked ring. I also found another one that had a "blown motor" and I just put the timing belts on the RIGHT way and drove it off (it was actually at a mechanic's shop). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 200 bucks aint bad if you have in mind to fix it. the tranny can be shifted on the fly so no harm there probably broke due to old age click my signature and go to the service and repair page and find timing belt, water pump, and engine seal repair write-ups if you want to learn how to work on cars a subaru is perfect to start with good luck and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kel Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Thanks to all who replied, like I said the car was over an hour away and someone bought it before I could. BTW Miles the trashwagons are funny as hell!! kel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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