Sweden Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Hello gang! I have some starting problems with my 96 OBW (EJ22). If the car runs for a few minutes and then I try and start it again , it won't start--at least sometimes. (An example would be if I drive to the gas station and dump some $6 per gallon gas in the car and then try and start it again). Last time it was in the shop (regional Subaru mechanic) he stated that the code he got was the cam angle sensor, which I happily ordered (from the U.S.) and replaced. No luck. It still does the same. I am getting the check engine light again. I have two questions: a) what might be causing this problem? a friend offered the use of his code reader to find out where the problem is; he has a newer model Chrysler Voyager. Are all code readers different or will this one work? I hate the idea of paying my mechanic loads of money here just to read the code if I can do it myself for free. I also have a friend on his way from DC to Sweden next week who could bring one specifically for this car. No shipping; no import taxes! Thanks as usual beforehand! Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 If they are OBDIII it will work. Check out something simple first, always gor for the simple stuff. Check out the fuel pump relay. Make sure this puppy is clicking on at about 8 volts (voltage drop when cranking). ALso whaen it happens can you hear the fuel pump come on? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Not all OBDII readers are the same. There are 4 different protocols. Some readers supply only 1 when you purchase, then you need to purchase the additional software to support the others. Some readers support 3 of the 4, others all 4 for free. They are: VPW (GM Vehicles), PWM ( ford), ISO-14230 (many BMW's) and ISO-9141 (Chrysler, Japanese, Korean, many other Europeans. Subaru OBDII uses ISO-9141. By 2007 All vehicles will be CAN Bus supported. Completely different form OBDI (Manufacturer specific analyzing tools) or OBDII. All CAN Bus MUST follow a single protocol framework. So then a CAN reader will work on ALL Can supported vehicles. Some US vehicles are already CAN Bus. They started in 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destey Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 For $85 I bought an interface from multiplex engineering, that allows me to use the free software explained below. Freediag is a open source linux obdII software. It allows you to connect your computer to the obdII port through your rs232c/db9 serial port. All you need is an interface to convert to computers voltage and timing (I sound like a saleman, don't I?). With the software, you can:</p> read trouble codes read freeze frame datarpm engine load coolant temp oxygen intake in grams/lbs manifold pressure shortterm/longterm fuel trim oxygen sensor voltages Be aware that this software doesn't work for 1995 cars with manual transmissions (the ecu isn't fully obdII). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Sweden, In answer to your questions I would do the following: In order to find out why the car won't start you should first determine if the problem is due to lack of spark or lack of fuel. Since you get a return on the CAS code after replacing it there may be a problem with the wiring to it or it is just a response to the problem you are having. Check to see if there is spark getting to the plugs the next time this happens. One thing you can do is carry an extra plug and plugwire with you for when this happens next and then remove one of the wires from the coil and install your test set in place. Place the plug on a good engine ground and see if it gets spark when you crank the engine. Another way to check the ignition is to purchase a pen sized voltage tester that electricians use. The tester lights up a small light when it is placed near an electrical field that is energized. The tester does not have to touch the plugwire to make the light turn on. You can get these at an electrical outlet or hardware store for about $20 US dollars. If you don't have a problem with the ignition then you need to see if there is a fuel delivery problem. I would carry a can of starting fluid with you to be ready for when the problem happens again. When it does, spray a small amount of fluid into the intake and see if that helps make the engine start up. If so, then check the filter and fuel pump for a problem. A while back I purchased a Innova 3110 code reader. The unit not only does most of the common protocols it also does the new CAN BUS. If you are interested in getting a nice scan tool I would check that out. I got it for around $170 dollars on the net. It sounds like you can also borrow your friends code reader since Chrysler and Subaru use the same protocol, as Ferret pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweden Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Wow! Replies, and then some! Thanks! I'll start then by borrowing the friends reader and work from there. Thanks again! Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweden Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 A little update and hopefully a bit more help. I used the Code reader from the Voyager a few weeks back to find out why the car isn't starting. I hooked it up and received the same code as the Subie mechanic here got earlier: Cam Angle Sender. Shoot! This isn' the problem since I replaced it a few weeks earlier. The car is also still not starting when driven for short distances. Great when it is cold, great after it has been driven for 20 minutes. I just can't go to the grocery store or I need to wait in the parking lot for 5 minutes before it will start again. My wife brought the car in again to be checked out. He checked some different electrical outputs and found out the for some odd reason the Ohms shoot way up when starting the car (to around 1200ish). Way too high according to him. (Sorry, I can't be more specific but I am getting all the info second hand from my wife.) The mechanic is now requesting a wiring diagram for the car for some reason. Are these diagrams out there some where without buying a manual? He suspects the computer being the problem, but before we go that route he wants to look at the wiring. I also might think that this could be connected to the problem with the incorrect alternator that was installed in the car for 2 months this summer (see one of my other threads on Uneven idle/wrong alternator). Is this possible? Any idea where one can find a electrical diagram for a 96 OBW (EJ22)? Thanks beforehand as usual! Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I thought the CAS was a code that REALLY meant there is a disagreement between the crank and cam sensors. maybe the crank angle sensor or wiring is intermittent? I dunno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 The problem very well may be with the wiring to the CAS and not the sensor itself. I'm not sure what was going on when the tech was measuring resistance while starting the car. You can't have power running in the circuit while measuring the resistance of it. The circuit current will give a false reading. A more meaningful measurement would be a voltage reading and perhaps that was what was really taken. Using an oscilliscope to look at the signal would have been best but they may not have one. The problem does sound like a bad connection to me and I would check the connector at the sensor for a problem first. The ECM will know when the commuication to the sensor is bad and give a error code. You can purchase service manuals or download information from Subaru. Here is a couple links to check out. You can also order them through the parts department but that is the most expensive route. If you contact Jamie at http://www.allsubaru.com/home.html she should be able to sell you the manuals at a discount. http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/register.jsp http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/index.jsp You can also get manuals from Ebay at good prices. There are CD manuals available also. There are multiple service manual sections needed to cover the whole car. Usually section 8 covers the electrical areas and section 2 covers the engine. To me having the factory manuals is a must for the cars I own but many people do not see the value in having a service manual. For those who do not work on their vehicle I can understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweden Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Thanks for the replies. I could be mistaken about when and what the mechanic checked. As I said I am getting the info second hand. I'll try and order a manual stateside and ship it here to Sweden. They are $15.50 + shipping at manual4me on ebay. I still am wondering though if the wiring problem is related to the car not starting? What would be the connection? Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 If the ECM doesn't see the proper CAS signal then doesn't know when to setup the firing pulses. So it doesn't make any and you have no spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 A little update and hopefully a bit more help. I used the Code reader from the Voyager a few weeks back to find out why the car isn't starting. I hooked it up and received the same code as the Subie mechanic here got earlier: Cam Angle Sender. Shoot! This isn' the problem since I replaced it a few weeks earlier. The car is also still not starting when driven for short distances. Great when it is cold, great after it has been driven for 20 minutes. I just can't go to the grocery store or I need to wait in the parking lot for 5 minutes before it will start again. My wife brought the car in again to be checked out. He checked some different electrical outputs and found out the for some odd reason the Ohms shoot way up when starting the car (to around 1200ish). Way too high according to him. (Sorry, I can't be more specific but I am getting all the info second hand from my wife.) The mechanic is now requesting a wiring diagram for the car for some reason. Are these diagrams out there some where without buying a manual? He suspects the computer being the problem, but before we go that route he wants to look at the wiring. I also might think that this could be connected to the problem with the incorrect alternator that was installed in the car for 2 months this summer (see one of my other threads on Uneven idle/wrong alternator). Is this possible? Any idea where one can find a electrical diagram for a 96 OBW (EJ22)? Thanks beforehand as usual! Sweden I will tell you that these days machanics belong to one of the 2 categories: 1. Most common type, connects to OBD2 scanner and replaces the part specified by computer. It it doesn't work, then screatches head in disbelive. 2. Rare type, does trubleshooting by the book, according to the specific code, has access to manuals. Your mechanic belongs to 1st category, look somewhere else, or learn car mechanics. BTW, in my experience, dealers also belong to the first category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somick Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Hey, Sweden, When you fix it (I have no doubt you will) please let us know what it was. Wish you good luck!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Sweden, From the discussion alone, I offer the hypothesis that it is a bad connection (corroded signal wire connector or poor ground). Those are two things that can be checked visually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweden Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 Half attempts at fixing things are often part of life here in Sweden. It is something that I have tried to get used to for the past 6 years now to no avail. This is another thread on another type of forum though. I have the choice between two mechanics here in the region of southern Sweden. I have been warned that the other one is really problematic and expensive. I'll order a manual from the U.S. since models are different between the two countries (mine being a OBW from Indiana) and start trying to check things out myself. I still fear that this is related to the alternator for the Japanese versions of Outbacks. Could pulsing of the engine cause something to give in the electrical system? The problem started about the same time as I was installing the original-rebuilt alternator back in the car. Just a (bad) thought. Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I don't think the alternator is causing this problem, but I could be wrong I suppose. Have you verified that there is no spark to the plugs when this problem occurs? If that is so then I would start checking ignition voltages. The ignition relay may be intermittent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweden Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 OK, I finally got around to checking for spark when the car has been acting up and not starting. NO SPARK! I hooked up an old wire and plug and cranked it over. nothing! Since it is always night here this time of year I'm pretty sure this is the case. The problem of not starting mostly only occurs when the car has only been driven a 5-10 minutes. After it warms up it does it noticably less, if not at all. It makes running to the grocery store for milk a real adventure! Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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