Ryanb Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 For those of you that read this often you are starting to realize my car is possesed. a new electrical issue a month... okay, no brake lights. It's not a fuse, and it's not the switch under the peddle. Is there a relay on the brake lights? and if so does anyone wich one specifically? Any other thoughts as to what I should check. What would muybae cause both to stop grounding? Also, I do NOT have the warning light on my dash telling me the lights are out, but they don't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 above the pedal assembly is a white connector on an XT6 at least...not sure your configuration exactly. this connector gets corroded and shorts out causing loss of rear tail lights and eventually head lights too. look for a white connector (though that's XT6 info, so yours could be different), so also look for any connector that looks damaged. disconnect and reconnect. a bad one will be brittle and look burned with wire damage. a white connector can be easily browned by a short. seen this happen to three of my soobs (XT6's), it seems most likely in manual trans as snow sticks to your feet and can brush off awfully close to that connector and short it out. looks like you live near snow and it's winter, so if you have a manual trans i wouldn't be surprised if you have a connector up there that is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubyNoobie Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 above the pedal assembly is a white connector on an XT6 at least...not sure your configuration exactly. this connector gets corroded and shorts out causing loss of rear tail lights and eventually head lights too. look for a white connector (though that's XT6 info, so yours could be different), so also look for any connector that looks damaged. disconnect and reconnect. a bad one will be brittle and look burned with wire damage. a white connector can be easily browned by a short. seen this happen to three of my soobs (XT6's), it seems most likely in manual trans as snow sticks to your feet and can brush off awfully close to that connector and short it out. looks like you live near snow and it's winter, so if you have a manual trans i wouldn't be surprised if you have a connector up there that is bad. My brake lights are currently working on my 95 Legacy, but the tail lights have just recently failed working. Hopefully your advice also applies to a Legacy. I'll have to give it a check this weekend, and see if that applies to my car as well. If so, I'll have to give you props for helping me fix this mystery problem on my Subie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryanb Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 None of that worked. I'm lost. What I really don't get is why the tail lights still work but the brake lights don't and they are the same bulb. There is power to the switch behind the brake pedal as well. There must be a relay somewhere but ************ if I know where it is. Any other ideas? Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 this kinda happened to me not so long ago.do you have a wayto get a diagram?i bet your ground broke.check at the passenger side inside your rear fender.pull the lense and mount out lookl at all of the connections and see if there is a broken wire there.then follw it all the way to the other taillight.it will go through the license plate lights(do those work?)and over to that side maybe defrost if you have it.you may have to look at the innards of the hatch too.i betcha it is a broken wire right at the connection.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Can't say for sure on a Wagon, but this is what I found on an '86 BRAT as far as connections in the harness going to the rear lights. There's a connector behind the PS kick panel, harness runs under the doorsill trim. Next one rearward is just infront of the backwall, behind the side trim. Maybe it's behind the side trim of the backseat in a Wagon, don't know. Harness runs between inner/outer body panels, over the rear wheel well. On the BRAT, the next connector is behind the PS tail light assembly. The harness splits here to feed PS and runs across to the DS getting the plate lights and gas tank on the way. There is a ground wire to the body at the connector behind the PS light. On the BRAT, it is attached behind the 1st access panel in the bed. Maybe it's behind the side panel of the Wagon, again,,, I don't know. Just thought I'd throw this up here to help you trace things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Are all the lights out in the rear? turn signals, parking lights etc. or just the brake lights? I had an 86 hatch that had no lights in the rear at all, and the headlights were dim. I changed the two headlight relays under the dash, and it fixed all of it. Here's the thread..... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22825 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Here we are again, playing guess the vehicle (shame on us that have signatures ect turned off to save a minuscule amount of bandwidth) there is no relay - sorry about that to My check mark goes beside Tom's idea. I'd pull the pass. side rear lamp assm. There should be a connector there. Test to see if you get juice on the ________ colored wired when the brakes are applied. (don't know the vehicle so I don't know the color) Use a broom or other object to prop the brake pedal down or short the brake light switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryanb Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 Thanks for the info guys. oh, and it's an 83 EA81. I thought you could tell from the picture mext to my posts, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryanb Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Alright, I checked behind the rear PS panel and the ground is good. There are 4 connecters back there, one goes across to the DS lights rear, one connects to the PS lights rear, and one is just there with nothing connected to it and no power going to it.The one with no power is a 6 prong connecter.There is also a red connecter that seems to be seperate from the main wiring harness and feeds up into the wall going up by the window ( by whatever the pump looking thing is with hard lines going to it) instead of through under the trim. I traced these along the trim down the PS. I found no connecters between the PS dash and the rear connecters mentioned above. I have power going to the switch behind the brake petal...so my question is, Does anyone know what color wire runs to the brake lights or which harness it connects to or what? Everything is up in the dash from this point and I really would rather not start taking the dash apart untill I know what I'm looking for. Any other idea or thoughts? Anybody?!?! I'm going crazy. Wiring is deffinitley my weakest link as far as car knowledge goes. Again, this is an 83. EA81. Wagon. Manual. At one point it had an electronic brake controller and a trailer hitch light connecter that I have long since removed ( i don't believe that to have ever effected anything ) I hope this is all enought info for someone to give me something here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarian Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 If your tail lights work, your ground isn't the problem, unless the tail lights go dim or get brighter when you apply the brakes. The 1157 bulb uses the same ground for both filaments. Your mention of an electronic brake controller is the best clue, in my opinion. I would trace the wiring to wherever the brake controller was connected. Even if it used a tap-in type connector, I'll bet that's where your problem is. The wire is probably broken or corroded there. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryanb Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Yes, they were the self tappers, and I took it out over a year ago, but I will still check. I bought the car with a Webber, so I also don't always know what to trace because all the connecters that went into the computer for the Hitachi are still up in the dash just hanging out. Thanks for your input though, it gives me more to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I would like to see where the trailer harness was conected I am sure it was a while ago but do you remember the "stop lamp" light coming on when towing the trailer and hitting the brakes. you could run an auxillery wire from the brake pedal switch to the connector you found behind the rear panel. I am assuming you can tell which wire was the brake light wire since you tested it for power. Be safer than driving with no brake lights The "stop light checker" is also in direct line with the brake lights, have you located it? FSM shows the wire from the switch is green turning to green with black at a ten wire connector This wire runs to the stop lamp checker behind the drivers side tail lamp Hope this helps As for knowing you car by you signature, I am sorry I do not have my"signatures turned on to save some minor amount of bandwith. Doubt I could tell it was an 83 anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwingsubaru Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 ive had very simular problems on other non sooby vehicles before and it always turned out to be a bad bulb even if it looked good or a bad connection at the bulb itself. have you tried putting any dielectric grease on the bulb socket to see if that helps?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baysurfin Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 turned out to be a bad bulb even if it looked good or a bad connection at the bulb itself. it sounds as if you are really worked up about this, now just to ask, have you tried using brand new out of the package bulbs yet? I had a similar prob that happened and it drove me insane underneath the bumper with my meter and tester and following wires....until I finally just went to the back and put in brand new bulbs.................they worked. Simple is always where I start after that. One thing I will say, if your getting power at the brake pedal button, I would use the tester on down the line, remember, current runs like water in a pipe, follow your current until you narrow your source down. Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryanb Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Darren: Checking down the line is what I was trying to avoid becuase " down the line" from the switch is up under the dash . That will be my next attempt after this. Skip: Thank you! I really apreciate your info. Colours and pin count is very helpfull, I'm diving back in first thing tommorow when I have some day light. I will also check the " stop light checker " . I really don't remember seeing one, but If FSM says it's there, then it has to be. Dragon: I have not tried new bulbs from the package, but I did pull them from my roomates car (same car) and they still didn't work. Plus, if you read closely, I tested the current at the brake light and there was none, so a bulb is not the issue. But thank you for the advice, I apreciate you giving me an opinion, the more the better. Thank you guys for your help, I'll keep you updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwingsubaru Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 whoops sorry missed the part where you said you tested at the socket and got nothing, guess im no help then lol since the 1 problem that i havent had with my sooby is electrical stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Test the circuit just before where the old trailer harness was and after it. This will tell you if the wire is bad at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryanb Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Skip...you the man! Stop lamp checker it was! A 32 dollar part from napa, and the closest one is in West Virginia so I'll have it in a week. So this thing isn't a relay??? Because it sure looks like one. I stumped Knects, Auto Zone, and Schucks with this part. Napa was the one to save my rump roast, as usual. Thanks again everybody for your info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Ryan thanks for keeping you post updated and glad we could help, you are most welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Napa was the one to save my rump roast, as usual. if you want to remain that optimistic, don't get an XT6! they never have jack and are usually wrong. ordered a distributor and they handed me one for a 4 cylinder, checked the part number and it was "right". ha. i avoid that place like chicken flu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I have managed two NAPA stores, shortly after I quit, the owner closed the one in my town! (purely coincidence;) ) So I am NAPA deprived at the moment. After spending countless hours reading and looking thru EVERY catalog in that store, I know NAPA has a better chance of getting your part than any other parts store. They have a program that allows employees to report an error in the cataloging. If it is found to be a legitimate error, the employee gets a pay bonus directly from NAPA. If your part was wrong, but the part number was correct for your application in the catalog, tell the parts clown to report it and you may make a new friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Sorry GG I have to side with Frank on this one My NAPA dealers are not the cheapest but they do go a long way most times at helping me in the odd part dept. and they return wrong items with no question, except to improve their data base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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