HELP: Excessive oil consumption in 05 OBW

[GTNP]

Hi

 

I'm relatively new to this board but have enjoyed reading the supportive comments posted about what is basically a very good car. I hope you can provide some insights to my situation.

 

My 05 OBW 2.5 consumes between 1-1.5 quarts of oil every 1000 miles. There are no obvious signs of leakage, and no plumes of smoke. The car is currently undergoing an oil consumption test where a local dealer tops up the oil and checks how much has 'disappeared' every 1000 miles. And every time he tops up with 1-1.5 quarts.

 

The dealer says such consumption is not unusual in a Subaru. One other dealer also said the same thing and actually printed this out in the service receipt. However,other local Subaru dealers I've contacted have said that is BS. Further, no other car or truck I've dealt with consumes this much oil.

 

There is no indication of such excessive consumption in the owners manual or warranty and maintenance booklet.

 

Have I bought a lemon or is this some secret Subaru is not telling the world? I would appreciate any insights you guys can offer on this.

[blitz]

Subarus don't comsume excess oil as a rule, but there are isolated reports of consumption just like yours. I haven't been able to find an explanation for it.

 

The "normal" comment is part of a standard answer that all dealers have. It's based on an allowable specification given to them by the manf.

[The Dude]

Let me say this, all car manufacurers set oil burning standards impossibly low. No matter how much oil your almost new car is burning, I can almost guarantee you the amount will be above the ridiculously low oil burning standards set by the manufacturer. The reason? The only practical way to fix a new or low mileage engine that burns oil is to replace it with a new one.

 

Using the Subaru recommended oil change interval of 7,500 mile you would be adding between 7.5 and 11.25 quarts of oil between oil changes. That's absymal, and your dealer is lying to your face. He probably could use a swift kick below the belt. My Subaru with 200,000 miles on the clock uses less than a quart between 5,000 mile oil changes. The "standard" for oil consumption used by many car manufactures is one quart per thousand miles.That is an insultingly low standard, and one set by self serving bastards to basically stick you with an oil burning lemon. Go figure. Hey, buy some oil company common stock, you might as well get something good out of the situation.

[2X2KOB]

Has the dealer given any indication as to what they might do about this, after the test period has passed?

 

I wouldn't consider this acceptable, no matter what they say.

[Tiny Clark]

Not so good.

 

Maybe the person installing the rings during the engine buildup process had a hangover and installed a few upside down...

[The Dude]

The big deal isn't even the cost of all that extra oil. It's all the extra time you'll waste and the aggravation you'll go through always checking the oil and topping off with can after can after can. And here's the big kicker, if you forget to check your oil even one time, you could be in serious trouble. In less than 2,000 miles of operation your car could more than two quarts low. And two quarts low is where most experts say you're at great risk of permanently ruining your engine.

[friendly_jacek]

As an owner of 00 subaru, I agree that typically there is no significant (less than 0.5 l) consumption in 5-6,000 miles regardless of type of oil.

 

However, I see posts like this a couple of times a year, do a search. Some other posters with similar story prematurely switched to synthetic oil. Did you?

 

You may want to try 15W40 oils to slow it down. Despite what many poorly informed people say, 15W40 is not too thick for subaru.

[Opie]

Subaru's official oil consumption info

 

Oil Consumption

An engine requires constant lubrication to reduce friction and heat and will consume some of the lubricant during normal operation. Oil consumption at a rate of 1 quart or more per 1,000 miles of usage may be considered unusual and should be investigated. Vehicles using less than 1 quart in 1,000 miles is considered normal and no repair or further investigation is required.

 

NOTE: Unless engine damage is evident, internal oil consumption testing or related repairs should not be performed until a new vehicle has been driven 3,000 miles.

 

Oil consumption is dependent on vehicle usage and may be at a rate higher than 1 quart per 1,000 miles prior to the first recommended oil change or during periods of continued high engine speed operation. Oil consumption may be excessive if the oil is not changed as recommended by the manufacturer. Therefore, ensure that the maintenance records for the vehicle indicate proper maintenance has been performed. If the vehicle has been properly maintained and oil consumption appears to be excessive, proceed as follows:

 

1. Check the engine carefully for oil leaks at all joining surfaces, gaskets and seals, on top and underneath the engine. Repair any leaks first, making sure that the location of the leak is identified and all oil residue is removed. If no leaks are found, go to step 2.

 

2. Perform a cylinder leak down test and record findings on the back of the hard copy. Perform appropriate repairs based on the results of the test.

[Juan]

My '05 OBW AT doesn't burn a DROP of oil. Have 11,000 miles on it and change the oil around 4,000-mile intervals.

 

I wouldn't stand for the standard "Normal attribute for this model" response. You paid a LOT for that car and you're getting burned.

 

Can anyone provide statistics, specifics as to how many other similar models experience this excesive oil consumption? You might throw "I can't stand polluting the environment this way" into your comments regarding your displeasure. Subaru is high on environmental friendlyness. That's a lot of oil to throw into the ? every 1,000 miles. If every Subaru did that, well, have them do the math.

 

Juan

[nipper]

Hi

 

I'm relatively new to this board but have enjoyed reading the supportive comments posted about what is basically a very good car. I hope you can provide some insights to my situation.

 

My 05 OBW 2.5 consumes between 1-1.5 quarts of oil every 1000 miles. There are no obvious signs of leakage, and no plumes of smoke. The car is currently undergoing an oil consumption test where a local dealer tops up the oil and checks how much has 'disappeared' every 1000 miles. And every time he tops up with 1-1.5 quarts.

 

The dealer says such consumption is not unusual in a Subaru. One other dealer also said the same thing and actually printed this out in the service receipt. However,other local Subaru dealers I've contacted have said that is BS. Further, no other car or truck I've dealt with consumes this much oil.

 

There is no indication of such excessive consumption in the owners manual or warranty and maintenance booklet.

 

Have I bought a lemon or is this some secret Subaru is not telling the world? I would appreciate any insights you guys can offer on this.

 

With the statement posted in the other thread, call you area rep and let him know what is going on. The dealer is snowing you. In extreeme cases you can use a quart per tank and still be considered ok .. but thats unacceptable in a new engine. Eventually this will have an effect on your cat and your O2 sensors.

how many miles are on this engine?

 

 

nipper

[Lawsonmh15]

When I stomp it through the mountains, I get blow-by... Even then, I lose MAYBE .75Qt per 5k miles. This is on an engine with 112,000 miles. I wouldn't take this from the dealer. You paid quite a bit for your ride. In NO uncertain terms; if I were in your position the dealer would be taking the vehicle back. Don't let them try to intimidate you with ridiculous claims and jargon. As you can see from those above... This ain't right. If you need to contact a consumer advocasy group, do so. But don't keep this vehicle. Show up with ALL your paperwork and a ride home. Tell them that you are leaving in a DIFFERENT vehicle than you came in. Now if they want to do the right thing, you can leave in another one of theirs. OR, you can catch a ride home with your wife and you will be expecting to let out of the vehicle, as you intend on picking up a MECHANICALLY PERFECT NEW Subaru from a competing dealer.

 

I'm sorry, hearing these stories blow my mind. Stealerships truly believe their own sh it sometimes and it's quite concerning. I got quoted $650 to install STRUTS. But wait... Then we're going to need to do a 4-wheel alignment. (Kind of a neccessity after installing Struts) So now about $800 out the door, and that doesn't include the cost of the struts... I'm getting it done $200 out the door and oddly enough... That includes alignment.

 

But I digress,

Don't take any crap. They WILL take the vehicle back. But you may have to leave them with no other options in order for that to happen. Good Luck.

[GTNP]

Subarus don't comsume excess oil as a rule, but there are isolated reports of consumption just like yours. I haven't been able to find an explanation for it.

 

The "normal" comment is part of a standard answer that all dealers have. It's based on an allowable specification given to them by the manf.

 

Thanks for the response. We've also sent a brief note to Subaru America asking them to help resolve the issue. Their response included a statement from the Society of Automotive Engineers that one quart per 1,000 miles is the maximum allowable oil consumption for new vehicles. Any new vehicle could range from zero to one quart of oil consumption and of course not all vehicles will be the same.

 

Not sure if this is used as a defense or explanation of the oil consumption, and it doesn't coverr the fact that as of the last test 1.5 quarts was consumed over 1000 miles.

[GTNP]

Has the dealer given any indication as to what they might do about this, after the test period has passed?

 

I wouldn't consider this acceptable, no matter what they say.

 

The dealer is still shuffling papers. Usefully, the guy we've been working with was off last weekend and hadn't communicated the situation or the documents detailing the test so I couldn't get a hardcopy of the mileage and amounts consumed. I'll try and get them this week. Advice from friends ranges fromsell it off as a lemon, make a huge stink and talk to radio shows and the media, push for a rebuild. I'll see what the dealer can come up with. You can imagine it is already taking too much time and energy...

[GTNP]

With the statement posted in the other thread, call you area rep and let him know what is going on. The dealer is snowing you. In extreeme cases you can use a quart per tank and still be considered ok .. but thats unacceptable in a new engine. Eventually this will have an effect on your cat and your O2 sensors.

how many miles are on this engine?

 

 

nipper

 

Bought brand new in 2004, it now has 29000 on the clock. We started noticing the oil consumption at about 22000, a couple of weeks after we had a regular oil change and had driven 250 miles over the Continental Divide to visit family. (The bozos who did the change also neglected to fill up the coolant - the car was running unusually hot most of the way.) We tried to run a consumption test with the bozos who performed the 22000 mile oil channge but they were unmotivated. Now we're going through another large local dealer and getting more conclusive results.

[GTNP]

When I stomp it through the mountains, I get blow-by... Even then, I lose MAYBE .75Qt per 5k miles. This is on an engine with 112,000 miles. I wouldn't take this from the dealer. You paid quite a bit for your ride. In NO uncertain terms; if I were in your position the dealer would be taking the vehicle back. Don't let them try to intimidate you with ridiculous claims and jargon.

 

But I digress,

Don't take any crap. They WILL take the vehicle back. But you may have to leave them with no other options in order for that to happen. Good Luck.

 

Thanks for the support. I'm not yet sure if this makes a difference but we bought the car through a brokerage, not a dealer. It is still under warranty though so in a sense it is every dealer's problem.

[Lawsonmh15]

Thanks for the support. I'm not yet sure if this makes a difference but we bought the car through a brokerage, not a dealer. It is still under warranty though so in a sense it is every dealer's problem.

 

 

I see you are in CO. So am I. What brokerage did you go through. Did you buy this car NEW, or did it have like 800miles and considered used?

[Juan]

You can imagine it is already taking too much time and energy...

 

You are going to HAVE to make a stink, GT.

 

What do you have to lose? I've worked retail for some ten years now, and I tell you that nice people, like you and me, get bent over time and time again. It's the confident, stand up people who take the situation to a certain "smell" that get what they want. Why? Because everybody wants to pull the chain and flush it before someone upstairs calls and says "Come up here and tell me why my office stinks. Oh, and bye the way, bring your career with you."

 

I know you're probably a nice person just like the rest of us, but this is no longer about the friendship(s) you may have made with the people you're dealing with, It's all about you, as a customer, now. It's about business. It's about profits. It's about customers, it's about careers, and they know it.

 

By now you know exactly what will make you happy enough to return and buy your next Subaru from them.

 

Plan on going to the top, but start at the bottom. Quickly climb the chain of management one link at a time. You're going to have to do it. Don't dump on anybody or yell. Simply make peoples' careers [FLASH] before their eyes. Keep climbing the links. Someone will pull the chain and flush his/her troubles away.

 

Just bring it during their busy time (I suggest the service dept. early Tuesday morning as people are dropping off their cars and the business day/week is still young,) When the first person asks you "How can I help you?", bring it! Tell that person what you want and ask them to get someone there who can make it happen. Seriously, lay it out to the receptionist just as you would to the General Manager. You don't have anymore time to beat around the bush. Make sure everybody is on the same page from the git-go. Still, plan on being there all day and perhaps making people stay overtime if that's what it takes for them to make you happy.

 

Carefully "study" peoples' name badges -even the receptionist's- and business cards as if memorizing the name (maybe even move your lips as you read it sounding it out). With very response you receive that doesn't make you happy, you will look them in the eye, address them by name and ask them who they work for [FLASH]. Ask them if that person is their direct supervisor and if he/she is in today and continue climbing. You want to avoid "supervisors" being tipped off and having someone tell you that they are not in today. Further, you won't be leaving any messages. SOMEONE's supervisor is ALWAYS in, and you will kindly talk to him/her. Keep climbing the chain.

 

Write names, tittles, phone numbers etc. on a few SMALL pieces of paper. This shows three things: all you need to "bring it" is a pen and a couple peices of paper; you only write down the really important stuff [FLASH]; you don't intend for this to take long. You don't have any more time to waste. Someone is going to make you happy,today [FLASH].

 

Business is business. Still, if you don't think you can stand in the middle of the stink, be prepared for them to wait you out.

 

Just sayin', what do you really have to lose? Do you think that standing up to "them" will ruin your chances of getting a dealer-mandated resolution? Do you think that there will be a code next to your name indicating that you're an a-hole because you stood up for yourself? So what if there is?

 

Bring it!

 

Juan

[tunered]

a brick on the throttle while you go to the movies should take care of it.

[Lawsonmh15]

a brick on the throttle while you go to the movies should take care of it.

 

Depending on how much oil is in the crankcase, it may need to be a night for the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars Trilogies. But if you drop it a couple of quarts...

 

"Gee formerly empathetic sales boy; I can't imagine how the engine blew. It's not like I'm a tech, but I might guess that the engine spontaneously used 2 quarts of oil on my drive home? Is that within your tolerance??? No. Well... I guess there WAS a problem with the engine after all. Boy it must've been a bad one. Anyway, make with my new ride!!! I meant NOW.

[friendly_jacek]

Bought brand new in 2004, it now has 29000 on the clock. We started noticing the oil consumption at about 22000, a couple of weeks after we had a regular oil change and had driven 250 miles over the Continental Divide to visit family. (The bozos who did the change also neglected to fill up the coolant - the car was running unusually hot most of the way.) We tried to run a consumption test with the bozos who performed the 22000 mile oil channge but they were unmotivated. Now we're going through another large local dealer and getting more conclusive results.

 

If the engine overheated indeed, this looks more like neglect and abuse rather than engineering problem. If subaru determines that there is an user error here, they may not be willing to foot the bill.

[The Dude]

Jacek, I reluctantly agree with you. I say "reluctantly" because Subaru of America seems to be developing a lousey reputation for often not taking proper care of their customers. But, there is no " hotter than normal " reading on a Subaru coolant temperature gauge. The gauge's arrow moves in distinct stages. Anything above the normal arrow position indicates an overheating condition. And that means stop the car immediately. You can't knowingly continue to run a car that is overheating and expect the manufacturer to pick up the pieces. Especially if the cause of the overheating is because the operator failed to keep the coolant at an adequate level. All alumimun engines are especially prone to damage from overheating. Fair is fair, I don't see Subaru at fault at all on this one.

[nipper]

Jacek, I reluctantly agree with you. I say "reluctantly" becaused Subaru of America seems to be developing a lousey reputation for often not taking proper care of their customers. But, there is no " hotter than normal " reading on a Subaru coolant temperature gauge. The gauge's arrow moves in distinct stages. Anything above the normal arrow position indicates an overheating condition. And that means stop the car immediately. You can't knowingly continue to run a car that is overheating and expect the manufacturer to pick up the pieces. Especially if the cause of the overheating is because the operator failed to keep the coolant at an adequate level. All alumimun engines are especially prone to damage from overheating. Fair is fair, I don't see Subaru at fault at all on this one.

 

We need a clarification on what "unusually hot" means. Look at your owners manual, it will tell you what the normal range of the gauge is, anything above that range will do damage.

 

nipper

[GTNP]

Jacek, I reluctantly agree with you. I say "reluctantly" because Subaru of America seems to be developing a lousey reputation for often not taking proper care of their customers. But, there is no " hotter than normal " reading on a Subaru coolant temperature gauge. The gauge's arrow moves in distinct stages. Anything above the normal arrow position indicates an overheating condition. And that means stop the car immediately. You can't knowingly continue to run a car that is overheating and expect the manufacturer to pick up the pieces. Especially if the cause of the overheating is because the operator failed to keep the coolant at an adequate level. All alumimun engines are especially prone to damage from overheating. Fair is fair, I don't see Subaru at fault at all on this one.

 

 

The oil consumtion test with the dealer finally shows 3.5 quarts over 4000 miles. The dealer says that this is on the high end of a normal range. Does anyone have any comments about that? Specifically, does anyone else top up with nearly a quart every 1000 miles? Remember, this has been going on for at least 8000 miles in a brand new 05 OBW.

 

Subaru America has said it will allow for the piston rings to be replaced on warrenty. I don't know if this is enough. The service rep. couldn't offer any reason why replacing the piston rings would make any difference other than it seems to be standard procedure. Furthermore, Subaru could not provide a guarantee that replacing the rings would make any difference. Does anyone have any suggestions as to why replacing the piston rings would be the procedure for reducing excessive oil consumption?

[cookie]

That's what I would do myself. The rings are usually the only problem with a new motor in this situation. Specifically the oil rings. A clean up hone and rings would probably do great. I am surprised the dealer would do that as they often refuse to do internal work and just drop in a short block. I had one Diesel out of the maybe 50 I rebuilt that just refused to break in. In the end we pulled it down(not that easy a job on a 671 in a bus) and installed new rings and she did 750,000 miles before I sold it.

[GTNP]

That's what I would do myself. The rings are usually the only problem with a new motor in this situation. Specifically the oil rings. A clean up hone and rings would probably do great. I am surprised the dealer would do that as they often refuse to do internal work and just drop in a short block. I had one Diesel out of the maybe 50 I rebuilt that just refused to break in. In the end we pulled it down(not that easy a job on a 671 in a bus) and installed new rings and she did 750,000 miles before I sold it.

 

Thanks for the response. What is the difference between replacing the piston rings and putting in a short block? Is having the rings replaced 'better' for the car than having a new short block?