jamal Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Stay on the gas, turn-in, floor the gas and you get a nice four-wheel drift going. In this situation, lifting-off is likely to start a spin. I'm not brave/stupid enough to try. I'd just get lots of understeer... on pavement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 We have been having a lot of snowfall here this year! :-) AND: There is no doubt: lift-off the gas, turn-in, stand on the gas....the tail will slide out. A tiny amount of opposite steering lock will bring it back into line tidily. Lift-off, turn-in, stand on the gas, lift-off again and you get OH!versteer almighty :cool: Rescuing the slide requires arm twirling or a prudent prod on the gas. Stay on the gas, turn-in: mild understeer. Stay on the gas, turn-in, floor the gas and you get a nice four-wheel drift going. In this situation, lifting-off is likely to start a spin. I'm not brave/stupid enough to try. So, quit turning into bends without keeping the gas pedal steady, if you want to keep the rear wheels in line. This is a good description indeed. Wouldn't you think that some of this should be covered in the car manual? Most subaru drivers will not come here for advice on winter driving and be surprised that the car fishtailes or slides. Some would learn the quirks of AWD driving the hard way. Many people have false expectations about AWD. Hey, I did myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Praise indeed, jacek. Thank you Jamal, I would recommend some negative camber on your front wheels to cure that dry-pavement understeer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I was saying that because I don't really have enough power to pull that off. But, yes, I do need more camber. I'm sort of shopping for camber plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 This is a good description indeed.Wouldn't you think that some of this should be covered in the car manual? Most subaru drivers will not come here for advice on winter driving and be surprised that the car fishtailes or slides. Some would learn the quirks of AWD driving the hard way. Many people have false expectations about AWD. Hey, I did myself. this caught me by surprise as well (coming from a long history of FWD cars only). Fresh 8 inches of snow on the ground and I am turning into my parking space at my apartment complex. I let off the gas mid turn and instantly my car stops turning and heads sideways right into the car parked next to my space. Fortunately, I was going slow enough that my momentum died before I smacked into the car next to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Lift-off oversteer is also present in FWD and RWD. As I mentioned above, I reckon we sometimes go faster in AWD cars because the ease with which they gain speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I've noticed my turbo wagon to be way more liftoff-oversteery than anything else I've ever driven from 80's rwd sedans, to fwd pisscutters, to 70's for trucks. HOWEVER it's a very predictable and enjoyable symptom of a chassis that seems very easy to control and fun to drive. I've managed liftoff oversteer on dry pavement before. This is the first car I've ever had do that. I was impressed That being said I find the snow driving to be very very safe (read: understeer). And when I'm out horsing around in the snow I really have to provoke the car into a slide or spin. I think it would be a different story if I didn't have decent gummy winter tires on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I think you hit it right on the nail with the explanation.I learned that hard way when my wife drove and she suddenly lifted gas pedal on an icy curve. As soon as she did it we went in a 180 degree spin and our legacy landed in a deep shoulder. Clearly an user error, but most people driving AWD don't know that AWD behaves differently or has irs quirks. Hey, when ConsumerReport evaluated legacy back in 2000, they gave lower score on emergency handling due to "fish tailing" in obstacle course. One reason why I sometime like RWD on ice. You can always engine brake and drag the rear end without fishtailing. Coming down icy hills I often take my truck out of 4wd just because of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainBiker Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 this caught me by surprise as well (coming from a long history of FWD cars only). Fresh 8 inches of snow on the ground and I am turning into my parking space at my apartment complex. I let off the gas mid turn and instantly my car stops turning and heads sideways right into the car parked next to my space. Fortunately, I was going slow enough that my momentum died before I smacked into the car next to mine. So you experienced Lift off Understeer. Just want to point that out, since don't think anyone here has listed that as a trait of Suburus. The only explanation I have for that is that there was so little traction that engine braking slowed the tires to the point where they slid sideways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 So you experienced Lift off Understeer. Just want to point that out, since don't think anyone here has listed that as a trait of Suburus. The only explanation I have for that is that there was so little traction that engine braking slowed the tires to the point where they slid sideways. I would call it understeer, but the front and back broke loose at the exact same moment so I was skidding. Mine was more like Lift Off Skidding. I am very acustomed to driving FWD in the snow. Whatever happened, it sure wasn't anything I had experienced in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Yes, there is of course the rather important aspect of suspension setup. By far the most FWD cars are designed to understeer under ALL conditions. Safety engineers prefer to send people into obstacles face first because the seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones are most effective in that direction. The very neutral stance of most Subaru setups means that they become responsive to throttle input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3298 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I would mention a basic. In icy conditions I have found you can turn, brake and accelerate, but only one thing at a time, or you end up loosing traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Aramchek_ Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I love how controllable my OBW is while sliding actually,I was drifting around some turns the other day and my passenger never even noticed. You just have to be smooth and prescise with the throttle and you shouldn't have too many problems,any situation where you take the load off of the wheels you're definately going to slide one way or another I've noticed though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yes sir! I just took delivery of a Forester 2.5XT and the first day of driving was in snow. Didn't take many miles before I was sliding it like my Impreza...very forgiving, very progressive. Slides in these cars almost happen in slow motion ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I've got reverse problem. I own a 96' legacy with MT and Nokian RSI tires. We got some fresh snow today (~2"), and I went to a parking lot to learn how the car behaves in a skid. The lot is not that big, so speed was 30-40 at most. Could not get into any serious skid. I tried steering hard, braking hard during turn, using parking brake during turn for a few seconds, hard downshifting from 3 to 2. Couldn't get into anything serious. I guess I have to find some ice instead of snow or speed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Yeah, sometimes my Bridgestone Blizzaks won't let me slide enough either. Still, good to have the extra grip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate_k Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Isn't this reason we all own subarus in the first place? Sideways is better! SIDEWAYS IS WAYY BETTER! heck i was sideways last night! now i need a new cv joint... but what do you expect for 221893 miles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oskar_subaru Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I always say : oversteer is when the passenger is scared understeer is when the driver is scared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyclimbs Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Isn't this reason we all own subarus in the first place? Sideways is better! I prefer rally style ...Slideways! Scandinavian Flick...! slow in the approach to the corner and nail it..WOT! Wahoo! steer into the drift.....what a rush! Think, Feel ,Drive!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch85 Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I agree, sideways is better. Sometimes not when you don't expect it though. Coming back from snowboarding and was probably going to fast. I came into a turn with concrete dividers on one side and a huge snow embankment on the other. Suddenly the car gently fishtailed so that I was going almost perpendicular to the curve. With very little experience in such a situation I managed to make it through the rest of the curve like that, constantly shouting "I GOT IT I GOT IT" to my passenger. Scary during, but incredible feeling afterward. My point is just reiterating the ease of Subaru's in sideways motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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