Special Fred Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Hello! Got an MPFI manifold for my SPFI '93 Loyale. I believe Frank B. said it came from an XT Turbo... I was wondering how hard this mod is to do, and maybe what else do I need? ECU perhaps? Wiring harness? Gasket kit of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 you need mpfi heads a wiring harness and ecu at the very least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Fred Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 you need mpfi heads a wiring harness and ecu at the very least Like these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 No - those are the cam towers. You need the MPFI heads, manifold, cams (you actually DON'T need the towers), ECU, Fuel pump, and complete engine and ECU wiring harness. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Fred Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 No - those are the cam towers. You need the MPFI heads, manifold, cams (you actually DON'T need the towers), ECU, Fuel pump, and complete engine and ECU wiring harness. GD Oh, OK, I see. Thanks GD! So I can reuse my existing cam towers then? Will there be any piston-to-valve conflict with my existing short block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 No problems with your shortblock - should be almost identical actually. Same pistons or very close I think. Valve interferance isn't possible... the only difference in the cams is the durration - lift is the same. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Keep us updated on this build. I'm real curious how this runs. I thought of MPFI on my wagon, wondering what the benefits were. I know it'd produce more power, but would you get more or less gas milage? and how much? Hm. Curiosity killed the cat, or so as they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Just one thing of note... Whats the point? I'm not knocking you, I just want to know... it seems like a TON of work for like 8 HP and 5 ft/lbs of torque... if you are gonna do all that work, why not go EJ and get like 40 more HP? I know money is an issue on the EJ, but still it just seems like a waste for such little results. Either way, have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Just one thing of note... Whats the point? I'm not knocking you, I just want to know... it seems like a TON of work for like 8 HP and 5 ft/lbs of torque... if you are gonna do all that work, why not go EJ and get like 40 more HP? I know money is an issue on the EJ, but still it just seems like a waste for such little results. Either way, have fun. Actually, he's using the non-spider MPFI intake it looks like. The 86 FSM shows only like 4 more HP and the same torque. I still think its a good idea. Maybe more efficient. Though, I think the MAF on the non-spider style MPFI is a flapper. I'm not a fan of the flapper. It'll be interesting how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Just one thing of note... Whats the point? I'm not knocking you, I just want to know... it seems like a TON of work for like 8 HP and 5 ft/lbs of torque... if you are gonna do all that work, why not go EJ and get like 40 more HP? I know money is an issue on the EJ, but still it just seems like a waste for such little results. Either way, have fun. Well,I for one can say that I'm considering a swap from a toasted SPFI to an MPFI spider that I have complete,ready to drop in.For me it's a question of having THAT engine when I can't seem to scrape up an SPFI anywhere up here.:-\ Was going through storage and the MPFI is actually there,not too far into the mess,so I could pull it out fairly easily. Not looking for horepower gains,myself.Just to keep a car on the road. Does the MPFI have a different exhaust post too?I couldn't look at the engine I have and have totally forgotten..... I never had many MPFI's around at all.I'm guessing it'sthe same exhaust or you guys would have said something by now.....I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 ...Does the MPFI have a different exhaust post too?I couldn't look at the engine I have and have totally forgotten..... I never had many MPFI's around at all.I'm guessing it'sthe same exhaust or you guys would have said something by now.....I hope. Same port, or at least close enough that it uses the same gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 thanks Pat....tools across America!!:-p should see them end of the week. Will my SPFI fuel management work with MPFI? Fuel pump too? In other words,can I drop in the MPFI and just hook up the same feed-return-etc. fuel lines and plug in the SPFI harness and go? Thanks Fred for starting this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 no you need an new ecu and wiring harness and maybe a fuel pump i don't think their different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Jeff's partially crazied... well totally craized, but he got half of it right. The ECU is different, and so is the wiring... but the fuel pump is just fine as well as the lines... All EFI pumps put out the same pressure if its turbo, spfi or mpsi, they all work. The wiring on the other hand..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Fred Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 Keep us updated on this build. I'm real curious how this runs. I thought of MPFI on my wagon, wondering what the benefits were. I know it'd produce more power, but would you get more or less gas milage? and how much? Hm. Curiosity killed the cat, or so as they say. Will do Mike! This is but one in a long list of upgrades/mods that I have planned for this vehicle. When it is finished it will surely be something "special". Stay tuned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Fred Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 Just one thing of note... Whats the point? I'm not knocking you, I just want to know... it seems like a TON of work for like 8 HP and 5 ft/lbs of torque... if you are gonna do all that work, why not go EJ and get like 40 more HP? I know money is an issue on the EJ, but still it just seems like a waste for such little results. Either way, have fun. I think you answered your own question KBD! The point is that I can and do like to challenge myself. I build Mustangs most of the time but I like 'Subes too so I thought I would try something different. True, the power gain will be marginal at best but I am collecting parts for this car at little or no cost, such as the intake that I scored. From what I've read, MPFI offers an increase in fuel efficiency but I can't confirm that. An EJ engine would be great, but any large investment at this point will defeat my original mission of building a cool car out of basically junk and leftover parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Fred Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 Actually, he's using the non-spider MPFI intake it looks like. The 86 FSM shows only like 4 more HP and the same torque. I still think its a good idea. Maybe more efficient. Though, I think the MAF on the non-spider style MPFI is a flapper. I'm not a fan of the flapper. It'll be interesting how it turns out. If I can, I'd like to convert this car to resemble an AWD XT Turbo. The tranny is already in my possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Fred Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 Well,I for one can say that I'm considering a swap from a toasted SPFI to an MPFI spider that I have complete,ready to drop in.For me it's a question of having THAT engine when I can't seem to scrape up an SPFI anywhere up here.:-\ Was going through storage and the MPFI is actually there,not too far into the mess,so I could pull it out fairly easily. Not looking for horepower gains,myself.Just to keep a car on the road. Does the MPFI have a different exhaust post too?I couldn't look at the engine I have and have totally forgotten..... I never had many MPFI's around at all.I'm guessing it'sthe same exhaust or you guys would have said something by now.....I hope. Hmmmm, it might be awhile; but you can have my SPFI setup when I get done with it, if you still want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Fred Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 thanks Pat....tools across America!!:-p should see them end of the week. Will my SPFI fuel management work with MPFI? Fuel pump too? In other words,can I drop in the MPFI and just hook up the same feed-return-etc. fuel lines and plug in the SPFI harness and go? Thanks Fred for starting this thread. Not a problem Moose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Fred,no sweat.And thanks for offering.Who knows,maybe the car will last that long here,but I kind of do need to get it moving WELL under it's own power.It'll limp real good for a little,maybe a minute,but not uphill.Toasted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT&A4ME Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Flapper is correct, wiring harness, puter, and about 25 sunny afternoons NOT fishing, biking, dating or doing something really fun. (this is what happens when you realise 10 yrs have gone by while I've been mukking around doing what i thought was cool- and missed doing what I loved to do. So, not yet mentioned or I missed it,,, what about the crank pos sensor? Xt turbo is in the distributor. Do all Subies have one there? Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT&A4ME Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Oh yeah, On your swap, MPFI lookes real nice,hi-tech ", But... on these older Subes, the MPFI is not all you'd expect it to be, ALL the injectors fire at the same time! ALL of them! So why bother? the gas sits there getting warm and vaporizes more, (which is good). Repeat 3 times! Finally the intake valve pops open and it gets sucked or blown in. So, we have/A computer, a crank position sensor-(Dist), individual injectors, yet we had to wait for a "sequential" injector system (Only 4 more transistors to gate the appropiate injector open as determined by the crank angle! ) Sequencial is what a MPFI should have always been. Sheeessse.Soap box... Oh, yeah- I just remembered how I found that out! Had a spare rail, troubleshooting for gross injector problems so I hooked all of them up to see their spray patterns. Expecting 1342, I was suprised when all 4 kept firing at the same time! I thought my computer was broke, fubar'd! Dealer said nope! That's how they work. So, don't freak out if you see the same. I just thought it might be of some help knowing this in advance. Enjoy your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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