BigMattyD Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Replacing front half-shaft on my 96 Legacy. I ordered a new axle from Napa, and I'm getting it tomorrow. I got a 32mm socket for the nut today. I decided to go outside tonight and see if I could loosen up the axle nut, having heard it is difficult... It took about 10 seconds to loosen the axle nut. It was way too easy. That's when I should have thought to myself....what can go wrong... I tightened the axle nut back to 150 ft lbs, since I'm not ready to remove it yet, and I jacked up the car to give the rest of the bolts I need to loosen a little work. Well, I tried the pinch bolt for the balljoint first. I cleaned it up, and used some PB Blaster, and went at it with a 6pt socket and breaker bar, but could not get it to budge, instead, the socket keeps slipping off of the bolt head. Ok, you son of a b****, I'll work on the strut bolts. They're bigger, and seem less rusty. Those give me the same problem. Well, it doesn't seem like it's going to be easy after all. I sprayed all the bolts with PB Blaster and put the wheel back on. I guess I'll try again later. I don't have an impact wrench, but I want one (and an air compressor, of course...) The bolts aren't all that rusty. I don't see why they're being so difficult. Granted, they haven't been touched in ten years. Anyone have any tricks besides the impact wrench?? More penetrating oil?? Heat?? Foul language?? It is not a rush, so I guess I could go out to the car once a day and douse the bolts with PB for days on end... I was getting to the point where I was afraid I was going to round off the heads of the bolts. matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrturbo Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 heat always helps, but if it keeps popping off i would try a better socket and breaker bar. i always work without air at my garage that isnt finished and can always find a way without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabron Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Replacing front half-shaft on my 96 Legacy. I ordered a new axle from Napa, and I'm getting it tomorrow. I got a 32mm socket for the nut today. I decided to go outside tonight and see if I could loosen up the axle nut, having heard it is difficult... It took about 10 seconds to loosen the axle nut. It was way too easy. That's when I should have thought to myself....what can go wrong... I tightened the axle nut back to 150 ft lbs, since I'm not ready to remove it yet, and I jacked up the car to give the rest of the bolts I need to loosen a little work. Well, I tried the pinch bolt for the balljoint first. I cleaned it up, and used some PB Blaster, and went at it with a 6pt socket and breaker bar, but could not get it to budge, instead, the socket keeps slipping off of the bolt head. Ok, you son of a b****, I'll work on the strut bolts. They're bigger, and seem less rusty. Those give me the same problem. Well, it doesn't seem like it's going to be easy after all. I sprayed all the bolts with PB Blaster and put the wheel back on. I guess I'll try again later. I don't have an impact wrench, but I want one (and an air compressor, of course...) The bolts aren't all that rusty. I don't see why they're being so difficult. Granted, they haven't been touched in ten years. Anyone have any tricks besides the impact wrench?? More penetrating oil?? Heat?? Foul language?? It is not a rush, so I guess I could go out to the car once a day and douse the bolts with PB for days on end... I was getting to the point where I was afraid I was going to round off the heads of the bolts. matt One word answer: heat!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delli50 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 i have the same car and had the same problem. not to rain on your parade, but i had to take the lower control arm off with whatever attached that i could not get off and bring it all to the local garage. they used mega heat and in the end, ended up drilling the boly out. and you guessed it the ball joint was destroyed. after 10 years, with all the salt and slush, it just becomes welded in there. btw, that was the case for both sides. do yourself a favour, take the parts off the car and take them to a shop that can handle the job. i do almost all of my car repairs myself, but this one was beyond me. i don't have oxyacetelyne. good luck and regards, mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted September 21, 2006 Author Share Posted September 21, 2006 I have a simple general purpose propane torch. I am hoping that given time and PB Blaster, I won't have to heat them, but I will if I have to. I have heard that heating it as quickly as possible and then dousing it with water creates some thermal shock that helps to break the rust bond. Some people say heat it up, then remove it while its still hot... Well, I'll get to it another day. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobmater Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 dont heat the strut though..... I use a pipe like a cheater bar and soak them in some oil.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 You have the right idea get the compresser, and a good impact. It's the only way to start and do these jobs. Replacing front half-shaft on my 96 Legacy. I ordered a new axle from Napa, and I'm getting it tomorrow. I got a 32mm socket for the nut today. I decided to go outside tonight and see if I could loosen up the axle nut, having heard it is difficult... It took about 10 seconds to loosen the axle nut. It was way too easy. That's when I should have thought to myself....what can go wrong... I tightened the axle nut back to 150 ft lbs, since I'm not ready to remove it yet, and I jacked up the car to give the rest of the bolts I need to loosen a little work. Well, I tried the pinch bolt for the balljoint first. I cleaned it up, and used some PB Blaster, and went at it with a 6pt socket and breaker bar, but could not get it to budge, instead, the socket keeps slipping off of the bolt head. Ok, you son of a b****, I'll work on the strut bolts. They're bigger, and seem less rusty. Those give me the same problem. Well, it doesn't seem like it's going to be easy after all. I sprayed all the bolts with PB Blaster and put the wheel back on. I guess I'll try again later. I don't have an impact wrench, but I want one (and an air compressor, of course...) The bolts aren't all that rusty. I don't see why they're being so difficult. Granted, they haven't been touched in ten years. Anyone have any tricks besides the impact wrench?? More penetrating oil?? Heat?? Foul language?? It is not a rush, so I guess I could go out to the car once a day and douse the bolts with PB for days on end... I was getting to the point where I was afraid I was going to round off the heads of the bolts. matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I've had some experience with ball joints pinch bolts first with a Loyale and then with my present Legacy. I broke the head of three of them and had to drill them thru and replace with bolt and nut. It holds very well, but drilling thru is not funny. On all of the others I used a acetylene torch (I have a portable set with small tanks). What seems to work best is heating almost to red the part in which the pinch bolt threads are. The female threads expand and the bolt can turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I broke the head of three of them and had to drill them thru and replace with bolt and nut. It holds very well, but drilling thru is not funny. He's not kidding...I've done three of them like that, and it was THE worst Subaru wrenching experience of my life. I had to sit there with a drill for like half an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 If you pull the ball-joint taper out of the control arm, you can use a sawzall to cut the balljoint and the pinch bolt in half. Then you only have to drill through half the pinchbolt, saves time. If your only doing the axel, pulling the sway bar link and the lower control arm bolt where it meets the crossmember may be the easiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrturbo Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 damn!!!!, i am looking at all these drilling posts and noticing something in common on location. i completely dismantle subarus everyday at my job and never once have i encountered drilling on any suspension bolts. and they say they use harsh road chemicals in pa and nj....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Been there, broke the head off of the Caliper mounting bolt which was not removed for 10 years. I spent 2 hours drilling it out. I did not have a tapping set to fix what I broke while drilling it out nor could I find a 17mm tap at any store. I spent 100 bucks on a new mounting bracket. Moral of the story, buy a impact gun off ebay and a new compressor at any home improvement store. If you are going to work on your car you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89hatch Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 damn!!!!, i am looking at all these drilling posts and noticing something in common on location. i completely dismantle subarus everyday at my job and never once have i encountered drilling on any suspension bolts. and they say they use harsh road chemicals in pa and nj....... I agree. Now granted, I've only done one on a subaru, my 95 Legacy, but everything came right off. I even have a torch and didn't use it. I used a 3/8" ratchet for the tie rod end, a 3/4" ratchet for the axle nut and a 1/2" breaker bar and pipe on the strut bolts. Even the ball joint popped right out with a few strikes on the ball joint sperator. I consider myself blessed after hearing everyone else's horror stories:eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Why not a electric impact wrench from harbor frieght for like $50. Not a cordless, but an actuall corded wrench. I have used one before doing a suspension swap on a 1985 jetta(read 20 yrs old, at the time). Got the car rolling in about a hour. I did soak the bolts a day prior, but still, a hour - thats damn good. I have also used a cordless snap on, but for that money you should just get a compressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Matty, I can symathize, as many others have, with your situiation as I've experienced tjhis type of problem in many areas on many cars. However, I believe you are making thing much more difficult for yourself than need be: The only reason you are separating the sterering knuckle from the lower control are is so that you can swing the knuckle (with the hub and everything else attached to it) out until the end of the axle can be slid out the back side of it. The esiest way to do this is to separate the tapered pin on the ball joint from the lower control arm. Leave the ball joint pinched in the steering knuckle. You will have to deal with the pinch bolt when the time comes to replace the ball joint but you can put that off for now... The way you separate the ball joint from rthe lower arm is by striking the end of the control arm sharply with a heavy (metal) mallet in the area surrounding the ball joint tapered in. Believe it or not, this will SQUEEZE the ball joint out of the control arm (bu virtue of the taper on the ball joint pin). Don't be afraid to smack that baby. By the way, this technique was shown to me by an old school mechanic at the shop where fellow lister xrturbo now works. I had removed the entire knuckle complete with lower control arm and brought it to his shop. The guy laughed at me and told me he would separate it with one blow of the hammer. Sure enough, he did so and told me never to be so silly again! I have had success with this technique several times since then (although it usually takes me 3 or 4 shots). Hope this helps! Mike V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 The job is done. I gave a brief thought to working on the pinch bolt and strut bolts again today. I heated up the pinch bolt with a torch but it made no difference. Using a good quality 6 point socket, I was still unable to budge it, and the corners were rounding off. I thought about removing the castle nut from the ball joint and separating the control arm there (this was before I read the post from Mikevan,) but decided not to because I didn't want to chance screwing up the ball joint since I knew I would not be able to easily replace it. I removed the top bolt from the sway bar bushing relatively easily, then moved to the front bushing for the control arm, or A-arm, etc. That took some serious torque to break free, but then was relatively easy to remove. I then loosened, but did not fully remove the two bolts that secure the rear bushing of the control arm. This gave plenty of wiggle room to get the old axle out, and put the new axle in. The old axle slid right out like it was brand new. I was actually very surprised. The outer boot was torn, which is why I replaced it. I plan to clean up the joint later. If it is still in good condition, as I believe it will be, I will replace the boot with a new one, and I'll have a spare axle on hand. I can't wait till I can get a compressor and impact wrench. My back is really sore from pulling on those wrenches tonight. Thanks to my USMB support group for weary do-it-yourself mechanics. Matt D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanski06 Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 how bout if you were to remove the strut? would that not help any? im just curious b/c im doing this too..and i was pondering of the easiest way to do this...so i can expect to have my car working for the next day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutthpaw Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [The way you separate the ball joint from rthe lower arm is by striking the end of the control arm sharply with a heavy (metal) mallet in the area surrounding the ball joint tapered in. Believe it or not, this will SQUEEZE the ball joint out of the control arm (bu virtue of the taper on the ball joint pin). Don't be afraid to smack that baby. By the way, this technique was shown to me by an old school mechanic at the shop where fellow lister xrturbo now works. I had removed the entire knuckle complete with lower control arm and brought it to his shop. The guy laughed at me and told me he would separate it with one blow of the hammer. Sure enough, he did so and told me never to be so silly again! I have had success with this technique several times since then (although it usually takes me 3 or 4 shots). Yep that is one of those old school trade secrets... I use it all the time... I think its time he got a good compressor and impact wrench... "there is no replacement for have the right tools for the job!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 One word of advice - Never, Ever, say the "E" word! That is a guarantee that the job will turn into anything but easy:grin:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 how bout if you were to remove the strut? would that not help any? im just curious b/c im doing this too..and i was pondering of the easiest way to do this...so i can expect to have my car working for the next day I tried to remove the strut on the first attempt, but I couldn't get those bolts to move. I think the lesson here, besides using an impact wrench, is to find whichever parts you can remove to give you slack. If you have to get it done in one day, I would jack up the car first and see if you can loosen the needed suspension components to allow you to complete the job. Once you are sure you can get them apart, you can commit to the actual removal and replacement. matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storydude1 Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I tried to remove the strut on the first attempt, but I couldn't get those bolts to move. I think the lesson here, besides using an impact wrench, is to find whichever parts you can remove to give you slack. If you have to get it done in one day, I would jack up the car first and see if you can loosen the needed suspension components to allow you to complete the job. Once you are sure you can get them apart, you can commit to the actual removal and replacement. matt The lesson in this is to Anti-sieze EVERY bolt you touch. Will make this a non-problem NEXT time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Regarding the technique of "squeezing" the tapered ball joint pin out of the control arm with a sharp blow of the hammer, Southpaw said: "Yep that is one of those old school trade secrets... I use it all the time... I think its time he got a good compressor and impact wrench... "there is no replacement for have the right tools for the job!" I would disagree that the hammer technique is a cave man method used only because the "proper tools for thejob" are not at hand. I have compressed air in my garage but would use the hammer method for this job every time, not an impact wrench. The hammer quickly separates the ball joint without ANY damage to the ball joint boot or the control arm (or the bearings at the inboard end of the control arm before someon questions that). By the by, the shop where the old guy worked indeed also had all the fancy tools available. But YMMV, of course. Glad you got your job done Matty. Mike V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 I don't think anyone was quetioning you hammer technique as "caveman-style," In fact I think he was saying the hammer technique is a good one, but that air tools are great as well. Next time, I may try the hammer technique, as it would be quicker, and fewer parts to disassemble/reassemble. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Since I have worked on cars, trucks, and busses in several states I have noticed some interesting local differences in rust. It may depend on the snowfall where you live and your particular roadcrew workers and what they think is a good mix for salt, as well as how your car has been maintained (often by the PO). When I came from Maine to NY and NJ I thought the cars were practically rust free. The I saw some farm counrty cars in upstate New York where it looked like fenders were optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 Since I have worked on cars, trucks, and busses in several states I have noticed some interesting local differences in rust. It may depend on the snowfall where you live and your particular roadcrew workers and what they think is a good mix for salt, as well as how your car has been maintained (often by the PO).When I came from Maine to NY and NJ I thought the cars were practically rust free. The I saw some farm counrty cars in upstate New York where it looked like fenders were optional. The interesting part to me is that on the same car, in the same area of the car, that there can be so much difference in the difficulty removing bolts due to rust, etc. On my car, the difficulty scale has been as follows: Impossible: Ball joint pinch bolt and strut bolts Very difficult: Front control arm bushing bolt, one of the two rear bushing bolts Moderately Difficult: Sway bar link bolt, Brake caliper mounting bolts, one of two rear control arm bushing bolts Easy: Axle Nut, roll pin, lower brake caliper pin. matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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