wtdash Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 On LegacyCentral: http://legacycentral.org/library/torquebind.htm Seems logical, but I wouldn't call $750 inexpensive (although it's a dealer quote). Compared to a rebuild, maybe it is.:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 It makes sense to me and the way everything works there. The only part I have a problem with is this: ... An updated case with the steel liner was put into prodution and installed in all new cars in mid-1997. ... My '98 GT had torque bind. Sometimes it will go away as easily as getting the tranny fluid flushed. If that doesn't do it.. it is time to replace seals and solenoids. Prevention includes an aftermarket transmission cooler and frequent (15,000mi) tranny fluid changes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 On LegacyCentral:http://legacycentral.org/library/torquebind.htm Seems logical, but I wouldn't call $750 inexpensive (although it's a dealer quote). Compared to a rebuild, maybe it is.:-\ everything in that write up may be absolutely true, but there are several things, causes theat weren't mentioned. if the AT OIL TEMP light on the dash is blinking 16 times at start up and you have torque bind, then your duty c solenoid has quit working. that's a 94$ part from the dealer. it is also possible for the clutch plates to either gum up, or lose their grip. one causes binding and the other causes no power to thew rear wheels. the leaking around the seals from one chamber to the other i've not heard before. that would be on the 'causes binding' side just like the failed duty c. uncontrolled flow means binding. i would love to find a part number and price for the replacement rear extention housing. i paid 285$ at a local shop to have a good used unit installed. i provided the replacement part. (it came off my own bad transmission, recently replaced.) so if labor is 300$ then the dealer part is 450$. as with most dealer parts, i bet, with the right part number, you can get it for 250$ - 300$. i would love to get a part number and order it from jamie at subaru genuine parts. any body done this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibumm100 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I'm with SuBrat. Change the tranny fluid a few times before you spend the $750. I thought my trans was toast and a few fluid changes made the torque bind disappear. For how long, no one knows. If it comes back, I'll change the fluid again. It's pretty cheap. My old fluid did not smell burned or anything either so don't go by that. BTW, the service guy at the stealership was sure I needed that part in the back of the trans replaced. Don't take their word for it. Find out for yourself. That was almost a year ago and no torque bind since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 There is also a spool in there that has to move freely, or it will torque-bind. I *think* the best thing(s) to do is: Carefully check your wiring (including the transmission ground) between your TCM and the transmission (noting that there should be 9-15 ohms between pin #3 and ground on the TCM plug-wiring side) cleaning all exposed connectors. Think about changing the transmission filter, or adding one (early cars did not have a filter) Change the transmission oil (actually 3 changes in a short period of time) you only get 4-5 quarts out by pulling the pan plug, leaving the torque converter full, so 3 changes should just about get it. After you have done this stuff and it is still acting up then it is up to you to decide if you wish to throw some money at it (meaning: take it apart for a look-see). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 It makes sense to me and the way everything works there. The only part I have a problem with is this: My '98 GT had torque bind. Sometimes it will go away as easily as getting the tranny fluid flushed. If that doesn't do it.. it is time to replace seals and solenoids. Prevention includes an aftermarket transmission cooler and frequent (15,000mi) tranny fluid changes.. my 1997 (186,000 miles) OBW had the same thing, then finally the solenoid surrendered and the AT temp light did its flash dance. 850.00 later at the dealer, the car was as good as new, if not better. They replaced the solenoid, housing and clutches. Parts were around 400-500 dollars if i remeber correctly. I do suggest going to a dealer for this for a few reasons. #1 they know exactly what parts to get (sometimes the parts have to be matched up). #2 they really dont want to sell you a transmission, so if your tranny is good they wont try to sell you one. A tranny shop will most likely tell you you need a tranny. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrturbo Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 thank you!!!!! this is what i have been saying is the prob and everyone shoots me down. that is the biggest prob for torque bind. if anyone has never seen this and you ever pull one apart you will see the shaft that goes into the housing has 2 washers and the cut right into the housing allowing full pressure for the awd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 No! No one is saying: "you are wrong, there is no way the housing and/or associated parts need replacing", I *think* we are saying (at least I am) that with ANY repair some caution and common sense should be exercised. I do not know about anyone else here, but I earn my money, and am quite willing to explore the external stuff (that has to work anyway) before taking something apart and spending hundreds. I do not believe any offense to you is intended by suggesting this, and if you are taking offense, you are wrong. thank you!!!!! this is what i have been saying is the prob and everyone shoots me down. that is the biggest prob for torque bind. if anyone has never seen this and you ever pull one apart you will see the shaft that goes into the housing has 2 washers and the cut right into the housing allowing full pressure for the awd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Generally with TB you first make sure the tires match (and are properly inflated), next you do a tranny flush, Then you try the fuse thing. AFter all that you go to the dealer to let them look at it. you dont immediatly go to the dealer. There are a few modes of failure, which lead to a rebuild. Not all of them blow the seals. (mine was just age). nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bserk Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 OK, I hope Im not beating a dead horse here, but this will be the next thing I deal with after I get my 96 Legacy OB back together (heads are at the machine shop, pick them up tomorrow) Obviously Im going to change the ATF, and since the engine is out I may as well pop the torque converter out and dump what I can out of there too... but I did have the flashing AT temp light issue before I ripped into this thing (and before I found this board and I knew a lot less than I do now!) This means an electrical problem setting a transmission code, and most likely the solenoid issue Ive read about here on several threads. Obviously I will check the harness, etc before I tear into that, but if the light was/is flashing a trans fluid change alone is not going to cure this...right? Speaking from Nissan experiance, I would say no, but I just want to be clear on this. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 OK, I hope Im not beating a dead horse here, but this will be the next thing I deal with after I get my 96 Legacy OB back together (heads are at the machine shop, pick them up tomorrow) Obviously Im going to change the ATF, and since the engine is out I may as well pop the torque converter out and dump what I can out of there too... but I did have the flashing AT temp light issue before I ripped into this thing (and before I found this board and I knew a lot less than I do now!) This means an electrical problem setting a transmission code, and most likely the solenoid issue Ive read about here on several threads. Obviously I will check the harness, etc before I tear into that, but if the light was/is flashing a trans fluid change alone is not going to cure this...right? Speaking from Nissan experiance, I would say no, but I just want to be clear on this. Thanks guys. With the light on, no. The light is saying the solenoid is not operating properly ( yes there are more then one solenoid, but we all can bet which one it is). nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 if you pull the torque converter be very careful when you put it back. apparently it's easy to not seat them fully, last 1/4", and then something gets crushed when you bolt it up. i'd take some measurements before you remove it so you'll know what you're looking for. as for the torque bind, there are several possible solutions, ranging from garranteed good for the next 100k miles at 850$ to maybe it will work at 100$. the duty c solenoid valve body assembly is less than 100$ from the dearler. this will fix the AT OIL TEMP light and make the torque bind go away, unless the clutch plates are gummed up. fluid change might help gumming. a mid range step would be to buy a really low mileage used trans and swap it or just the rear extention housing in to your car. you might consider a new duty c with it. ( a good used trans may be more than the new part price.) or you can just buy the new rear extention case, with all new parts, from the dealer and put it in, or have them install it, 850$. (if you go this route, please come back with the part number.) none of these is rocket science, except maybe the torque converter. the question for you is how much do you want to spend and how much work are you willing to do. and are you willing to some of it twice.? if i had a shop, i'd probably go for the new duty c, it's a gamble but worst case senario the clutch plates or other parts fail and you go back in. i don't know what a visual inspection will reveal when you pull the rear housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 if you pull the torque converter be very careful when you put it back. apparently it's easy to not seat them fully, last 1/4", and then something gets crushed when you bolt it up. i'd take some measurements before you remove it so you'll know what you're looking for. as for the torque bind, there are several possible solutions, ranging from garranteed good for the next 100k miles at 850$ to maybe it will work at 100$. the duty c solenoid valve body assembly is less than 100$ from the dearler. this will fix the AT OIL TEMP light and make the torque bind go away, unless the clutch plates are gummed up. fluid change might help gumming. a mid range step would be to buy a really low mileage used trans and swap it or just the rear extention housing in to your car. you might consider a new duty c with it. ( a good used trans may be more than the new part price.) or you can just buy the new rear extention case, with all new parts, from the dealer and put it in, or have them install it, 850$. (if you go this route, please come back with the part number.) none of these is rocket science, except maybe the torque converter. the question for you is how much do you want to spend and how much work are you willing to do. and are you willing to some of it twice.? if i had a shop, i'd probably go for the new duty c, it's a gamble but worst case senario the clutch plates or other parts fail and you go back in. i don't know what a visual inspection will reveal when you pull the rear housing. I had my 1997 OBW done, do you need part numbers as I have them. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I had my 1997 OBW done, do you need part numbers as I have them. nipper yes, that would be great. i was hoping to save a little on parts and order them from jamie. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 thank you!!!!! this is what i have been saying is the prob and everyone shoots me down. that is the biggest prob for torque bind. if anyone has never seen this and you ever pull one apart you will see the shaft that goes into the housing has 2 washers and the cut right into the housing allowing full pressure for the awd If you have ever pulled one of these apart and looked at the way this system works you would see that fluid leaking past these seals would cause a loss of pressure to the transfer clutch pack. A loss of pressure to the clutch pack isn't going to cause torque bind. Torque bind, when not caused by tire size, is caused buy either too much fluid pressure to the transer clutch at the wrong time, or wear in the transfer clutch discs and drive hub that cause the discs to bind and not release. A failed duty solenoid C, or in rare cases a bad TCM will cause full pressure to be applied to the clutch pack. The wear to the drive hub and clutch discs is just that, and the clutch pack and hub need to be replaced to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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