mspeters Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Hi all, I own a 98 OBW. I had my head gaskets replaced 50k ago and just found out that they are likely blown again. This was back in Jan '05. the car has 225k on it now. How long should I expect a set to last? Dumping $1000 every 2 years is rediculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 if properly replaced they should never need to be replaced again. the first time around, what brand gaskets were used? it should have been Subaru, if not then that's a possible cause. if not then the shop likely didn't properly clean or torque the head bolts or the heads were not checked and milled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Did they use the update multi-layer-steel gaskets from Subaru? The original ones that the factory used in that engine are poorly designed, and the updated ones SUPPOSEDLY dealt with the problem. Also, did they check for head warpage or cracking and deal with any damage properly? A slightly warped head can cause new gaskets to fail early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 When I do head gaskets on a 2.5L DOHC engine I tell the owners that they can expect another 100k. I don't believe that the new gaskets can fix the open deck large bore of the 2.5L, so I won't stick my neck out to far in estimating the life of new gaskets. That being said..................I will say they shoulda lasted longer than 50k. The lowest miles I've seen the origanals go is right around 90K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 hrmmm normally i would side with the last forever (in car terms) answer, but you are really up there in mileage. It really depends upon what work had been done the forst time around. Also another question is either time had the engine been really cooked? When you get up high in mileage, there are other factors that can come in the picture. So... Exaclty what work was done the first time, and who did the work, and what parts were used. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 the "recommended" replacement interval for headgaskets, new or old cars or even cars with the original gaskets is 100,000mi/160,000kil. ...I got this info yesterday from subaru Canada...this is there way of NOT extending the warranty to 8yrs/100,000mi like for some models in the States When I do head gaskets on a 2.5L DOHC engine I tell the owners that they can expect another 100k. I don't believe that the new gaskets can fix the open deck large bore of the 2.5L, so I won't stick my neck out to far in estimating the life of new gaskets. That being said..................I will say they shoulda lasted longer than 50k. The lowest miles I've seen the origanals go is right around 90K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 the "recommended" replacement interval for headgaskets, new or old cars or even cars with the original gaskets is 100,000mi/160,000kil. ...I got this info yesterday from subaru Canada...this is there way of NOT extending the warranty to 8yrs/100,000mi like for some models in the States FWIW, I am fully independent from SOA or any of their dealers, other than buying OEM parts. Thought I should let you know since you did quote my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I didn't want to quote your post because from "experience" I don't know one way or the other..just what I heard or was told to me by Subaru ... FWIW, I am fully independent from SOA or any of their dealers, other than buying OEM parts. Thought I should let you know since you did quote my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 the "recommended" replacement interval for headgaskets, new or old cars or even cars with the original gaskets is 100,000mi/160,000kil. that sounds very strange. that's like having a recommended replacement interval for an engine? very strange that they would tell you that applies to all cars? there are many motors that will not blow headgaskets prior to 200,000 and even 300,000 miles if never overheated (read - experience coolant loss or thermostat failure...etc). the headgaskets on some motors will hold the life of the vehicle. problem is most people don't maintain cars to that age and they eventually overheat to a cooling system failure, but avoiding that there are engines that will not blow a head gasket. that is fact. my oppinion is that a properly done 2.5 with the updated headgasket would even fit that, but that's certainly debatable but not worth debating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 my oppinion is that a properly done 2.5 with the updated headgasket would even fit that, but that's certainly debatable but not worth debating. Why is this not worth debating? It is good tech. These cars are going to be around for awhile, why not figure out what the problem is or if there is a real fix that will make the engines last even longer. Manitanance on these engines is not the awnser. I've seen car with all the schedulaed(sp) maintanence done, and still the head gaskets let loose. What is it that you think causes the head gasket to fail? What makes you think that the updated gasket is the fix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 strange as it may be,...I was looking at "used" subarus with the 2.5 motors for a friend of mine and asked the salesperson if he was aware of the extended headgasket warranty that SOAmerica gave...his response was that here in Canada there is No such extended warr. and that SOCanada recommends replaceing the headgasket at 103,000mi/165,000kil that sounds very strange. that's like having a recommended replacement interval for an engine? very strange that they would tell you that applies to all cars? there are many motors that will not blow headgaskets prior to 200,000 and even 300,000 miles if never overheated (read - experience coolant loss or thermostat failure...etc). the headgaskets on some motors will hold the life of the vehicle. problem is most people don't maintain cars to that age and they eventually overheat to a cooling system failure, but avoiding that there are engines that will not blow a head gasket. that is fact. my oppinion is that a properly done 2.5 with the updated headgasket would even fit that, but that's certainly debatable but not worth debating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 strange as it may be,...I was looking at "used" subarus with the 2.5 motors for a friend of mine and asked the salesperson if he was aware of the extended headgasket warranty that SOAmerica gave...his response was that here in Canada there is No such extended warr. and that SOCanada recommends replaceing the headgasket at 103,000mi/165,000kil That may be their way of avoiding the issue. Also i dont know how straong or weak consumer law is in Canada. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 With their newly stated recommendation, Subaru has found the "sweet spot" between the law and the consumer... That may be their way of avoiding the issue. Also i dont know how straong or weak consumer law is in Canada. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commuter Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 97 OB, head gaskets went at 160k miles, nearly 5 years ago. Dealer did the work. Now have about 170k miles on the replacement. The head gaskets are holding, but I don't think the engine will do much more than another 50k maybe 75k miles. (Note - the block ended up being repaced as well due to a conrod bearing failure around the same time as the gaskets.) The engine is getting noisier, using slightly more oil, etc. Same as the first one. These first generation 2.5l engines just don't seem to be up for the "really" long haul. Commuter As an aside, my 85 Civic with 1.3l inline 4 went 440k miles and 14.5 years without the engine ever being touched. I know it is quite a different animal than the H4 engine, but it does show that one doesn't necessary need to expect head gasket replacements to be a maintenance item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 If you are useing the OE headgasket, have you seen any noticable differences in the "upgraded" gasket that might help??.. or are you useing another company like Ishimo/Corteco/Fel-Pro...even among these companies there seems to be visibile differences, at least for the much older subi's. ..in the eighties, subaru came out with there upgrade for the ea82 which really did not help much either.. it is amazing that so many years have gone by and apparently the designers are still having problems with this issue .. FWIW, I am fully independent from SOA or any of their dealers, other than buying OEM parts. Thought I should let you know since you did quote my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron917 Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 the "recommended" replacement interval for headgaskets, new or old cars or even cars with the original gaskets is 100,000mi/160,000kil. ...I got this info yesterday from subaru Canada...this is there way of NOT extending the warranty to 8yrs/100,000mi like for some models in the States Do you have a reference? I am planning to buy a new car this year, and if this is true, and it applies to new Subarus, then Subaru will be eliminated from my list. I was hoping the major engine problems with my '99 Outback (headgasket failure, then siezed camshaft) were resolved by newer designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger83 Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 My sister in law's failed at 245K after being replaced at 145K. The ones we replaced at 140k were still going stong at 187K when sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I was hoping the major engine problems with my '99 Outback (headgasket failure, then siezed camshaft) were resolved by newer designs. head gaskets are not replacement items, period. if they're saying that, it's some kind of rhetoric for PR, political, liability....etc just due to the 96-03 2.5 issues. this is really a circular discussion and you will get nowhere due to the fact that headgaskets are not replacement items in and of themselves. open up the factory service manual, the owners manual or any newer vehicle and none will even have the word "headgasket" in them. there's a reason for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I wish I could give you an authoritative reference point, but I can't concerning the recommended headgasket replacement as was told to me ..as said earlier, I was looking with a friend of mine at some '01-'04 Outbacks, all of them had the 2.5L motor with average kil/mi on them...when I asked the salesmen about any extended warranties concerning headgaskets like they(subaru) have in the States, his immediate response was that subaru canada "recommended". the headgasket change at 165k kil/103k mi ..(fits conveniently together when doing the timing belt)..at least he did not lie or try to cover something up...good luck trying to find what is the truth and I too would like to know if they have actually eliminated the HG problem for the new cars??...some concrete info. to the consumer would be appreciated rather then just knowing that the "magic blue bullet" coolant conditioner is Now added at the factory...some comfort that is??. ...I see you are from NJ so my info may not apply for you...I did not want to stir the pot here.. Do you have a reference? I am planning to buy a new car this year, and if this is true, and it applies to new Subarus, then Subaru will be eliminated from my list. I was hoping the major engine problems with my '99 Outback (headgasket failure, then siezed camshaft) were resolved by newer designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 If you are useing the OE headgasket, have you seen any noticable differences in the "upgraded" gasket that might help??.. or are you useing another company like Ishimo/Corteco/Fel-Pro...even among these companies there seems to be visibile differences, at least for the much older subi's. ..in the eighties, subaru came out with there upgrade for the ea82 which really did not help much either.. it is amazing that so many years have gone by and apparently the designers are still having problems with this issue .. Yes, I use only OE head gaskets. I personaly don't think the head gasket itself is the real problem in terms of the 2.5L DOHC failures. I believe it is the design of the engine block itself. Yes, there are noticable differences in the upgraded gasket. Will it or does it help? I lean toward a no on that. If the failure is due to what I think it is due to, I think that the graphite impregnated fiber gasket (used on the '96MY 2.5L DOHC) would be a better choice. I can't test that theory on a customers car, and can't afford to do it myself so................... Also I see very few '96 2.5L DOHC head gasket failures. Although there are not as many on the road, only the auto trans cars got that engine in '96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspeters Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 I had used the latest OEM head gaskets. pn 11044AA610 heads didn't need to be milled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Would you remember how many miles were on car for the head not having to be milled?? I had used the latest OEM head gaskets. pn 11044AA610 heads didn't need to be milled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlit Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Yes, I use only OE head gaskets. I personaly don't think the head gasket itself is the real problem in terms of the 2.5L DOHC failures. I believe it is the design of the engine block itself. Yes, there are noticable differences in the upgraded gasket. Will it or does it help? I lean toward a no on that. If the failure is due to what I think it is due to, I think that the graphite impregnated fiber gasket (used on the '96MY 2.5L DOHC) would be a better choice. I can't test that theory on a customers car, and can't afford to do it myself so................... Also I see very few '96 2.5L DOHC head gasket failures. Although there are not as many on the road, only the auto trans cars got that engine in '96. My thoughts exactly. It sounds like a major problem with the design of the block, otherwise the problem would have easily been remedied with a little stronger gasket. I'm mostly a honda owner that has driven my cars well over 200,000 mi. Only when I was introduced to the subaru forester did I ever hear of a "head gasket change interval". I personally will never buy from SOA in the future because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 even though the HG replacement is not mentioned in the owners manual..it certainly has become for me a maintenance item on the 3 ..'80's loyales I have owned for the past 20 yrs...O well..I really like subarus and hope to have better luck with my '01 Outback... I could't afford the mechanics any more so I learned to it myself My thoughts exactly. It sounds like a major problem with the design of the block, otherwise the problem would have easily been remedied with a little stronger gasket. I'm mostly a honda owner that has driven my cars well over 200,000 mi. Only when I was introduced to the subaru forester did I ever hear of a "head gasket change interval". I personally will never buy from SOA in the future because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 even though the HG replacement is not mentioned in the owners manual..it certainly has become for me a maintenance item on the 3 ..'80's loyales I have owned for the past 20 yrs...O well..I really like subarus and hope to have better luck with my '01 Outback... I could't afford the mechanics any more so I learned to it myself If you are looking for info on an '01 2.5L, that is a SOHC engine. Different animal than the '97-'99 DOHC engine that this post was started for. Very important that these two engines and problems aren't confused. Two different problems, and possibly two different causes. I don't know that SOA has done anything other that the stop leak "cooling system conditioner" to rectifiy this problem. The head gasket itself may be the problem in these engines. These gaskets are a joke. The OE replacments are no different than the factory original. And I really don't have a clue what is causeing the leak. I would like to blaim the gasket but the funny thing is the leak is always in the same spot, which makes me thing it could be somthing eles. Anywhoo........Not to be an rump roast, but I think when a thread is started asking about a '98 2.5L the discussion should be limited to the DOHC engine. If there is a question about the SOHC engine a new thread should be started. People get confused. I know some people start thinking that they need the "cooling system conditioner" in their DOHC engine to prevent/fix their head gasket problem. Not going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.