Tedder Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Help Sub missing #1 cyl. Thought it was timing belt, did the change. Tried to start it. It kind of sounded like it hung up then would not start. Did the timing belt again, check the marks multiple times. Back together tried to start, same thing a s before, no joy. Ideas ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Do a compression test on all 4 cylinders wet and dry. This will tell us a lot. Do you have spark? Can you hear the fuel injectors clicking? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Whenaever I read a posting like this it almost always ends up the wrong timing mark on the crank pulley was used to time the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedder Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 Whenaever I read a posting like this it almost always ends up the wrong timing mark on the crank pulley was used to time the belt. John, Thanks for the reply, This is a 91 EJ22 and there is an arrow on the face of the crank gear (after the crank pulley removed) When I placed the crank pulley back on the timing mark on the pulley went to zero on the gage. I saw no other marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedder Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 Do a compression test on all 4 cylinders wet and dry. This will tell us a lot. Do you have spark? Can you hear the fuel injectors clicking? nipper Got spark, when do you hear the injectors, key on or cranking. Will do the compression test tomorrow night. Thanks for the reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 I think the cam marks on the two cams should face 180 degrees apart. Is yours that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 HelpSub missing #1 cyl. Thought it was timing belt, did the change. Tried to start it. It kind of sounded like it hung up then would not start. Did the timing belt again, check the marks multiple times. Back together tried to start, same thing a s before, no joy. Ideas ? http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/TBeltEWWin05.pdf nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Thanks for the link Nipper. Looking at the timing marks to looks my advice about the marks being 180 out is incorrect. Am I thinking of the EA82 engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 tedder, did this engine have problems before you removed and installed the belt? i'm with john, probably misaligned. read that endwrench article very carefully and make sure you're lining everything up perfectly. i always line up via the flywheel/flexplate. there's an access hole under the throttle body/intake. remove the rubber plug (if it's there) and use that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 [...]This is a 91 EJ22 and there is an arrow on the face of the crank gear (after the crank pulley removed) When I placed the crank pulley back on the timing mark on the pulley went to zero on the gage. I saw no other marks. As others have said, using the correct marks is critical. For links to further info, see my post #2 in http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69365 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedder Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 A little more information. Daughter (yah, I know) drove the car said it just started to run rough. I confirmed and found the #1 cyl was not firing. There was spark, but I am unsure about fuel. I threw in a set of plugs, no change. So I lept to the assumsion of a timing belt , orginal 88K no history of this ever being done. Thought it couldn't hurt. So it was kind of running when I took it apart. I tried to be very careful about timing marks, making sure the piston was fully TDC by removing the sparkplug and using a pencil. After installing Timing belt, I manually turned the engine over several times to make sure everything moved. When I turned the key, the engine kind of caught ( I mean like when the timing is bad) then cranked smoothly, when I held the throtle to the floor it would kind of fire but no pops. Today, I will check spark, gas and do a compression check. My thoughts is that the computer shut down the #1 cyl. and I need to eval the check engine light. Any resource is welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 [...]Any resource is welcome. Just to be sure -- the arrow on the crank sprocket is not the correct timing mark for belt replacement. Possibly relevant cylinder #1 info: http://endwrench.com/current/spring04pdfs/InsiderInfo.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathany Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 You definitely have the timing incorrect. It is very common for one of the cams to turn once the tension is released from the belt and unless you were very careful to see exactly how much and which direction it spun in you probably put it back wrong. At this point the engine will need to be completely retimed by making sure both cams are on the correct stroke with the #1 cylinder at tdc and the crank in the correct position. Also, if this is the same car that had a slipped crank/bad keyway you need to make sure it did not move AT ALL! on the shaft. This could account for the bad cylinder, however I would maybe guess somethng else. Don't start grabbing at straws, though, get the car running then do a spark and compression check on all cylinders, that will give you a much better place to start once it is running. For one cylinder to stop working it would have to be no spark on that cylinder or no compression via bad intake or exhaust valve, bad compression through the rings or a gasket leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 I confirmed and found the #1 cyl was not firing.There is an article on EndWrench: Legacy and Impreza Engines with No Injection Pules #1 Cylinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I would think his quote that "after the belt change the car turned over smoothly but didn't pop" would indicate the timing is off.Recheck the marks,subes are very unforgiving as you can't turn the distributor to compensate for one tooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Make sure you get the crank sensor wire on too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Just to be sure -- the arrow on the crank sprocket is not the correct timing mark for belt replacement. Correct. Ignore that mark. Use the mark on the crank sensor tooth on the BACK of the crank sprocket. Don't worry about TDC ever with these engines. It is irrelevant. I've never bothered to find TDC. Line up the marks on the cam sprockets and the crank sprocket with the marks on the belt and you're golden. It is also impossible to be 180º out on these engines, since they're electronically timed. Reinstall the belt using the correct mark on the crank and it will start right up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedder Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Quick note to all of you excellent Ultimate Soob types. If any others outthere followed this tread. Indeed the timing mark was off, the arrow inscribed on the crank gear denotes piston direction (Why?). Looking on the gear to the side nearest the engine there is indeed a timing mark. I lined the two cams up to 12:00 and the timing crank gear to the mark on the block, set the belt, buttoned it up, turned the key and Varoom! Thanks again to all who contributed. Regards, Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 the arrow inscribed on the crank gear denotes piston direction (Why?).Glad you got it straightened! The arrow denotes piston position for checking valve clearances, though on models with HLA's this isn't used as oft. Fortunately you had a non-interference 2.2L; anything else would have bent valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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