sublute Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Hello, I just wanted to relay my latest "Gods of Surplus" story and ask collective wisdom a question or two. I was walking down the street with my daughter and I see this OBW with a note to "tow truck person" stuck in the wiper. It also had the address and phone # of the owner and as I passed this house I notice the person was at the door. I asked the person about the car and they asked me if I wanted it. It turned out to be a '96 OBW 2.5l w/ blown head gasket. Other than that it seemed to be in good shape. I said I'd think about it and immediately came back and checked out what would be involved in a HG job as I have been using this board for a while... In the middle of this I get a call and they say they turned the towtruck away and when was I going to come pick it up... I'm a Subaru person- 71 SW, two 79 SW's, 81 GL SW, 2- 84 GL HB's, 89 Justy,3- Loyale SW's ( 2 were parts cars...) and now without much time to really consider, a 96 OBW 2.5 automatic (I've never had an auto-trannie) I'm leaning toward doing the HG (myself, of course) and enjoying a newer bigger, better??? Subaru, but really have pangs about shedding the Loyale. It's smaller, gets 25-30 MPG (OBW 2.5 auto says 20-26MPG). Silly question, but do you think it is a good move? I'm going to go read all about the HG job and maybe ask some questions there although this subject seems to be covered fairly comprehensively over time... thanks sublute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 definitely get it, sounds like a great vehicle. i'd personally go for an engine swap unless you can verify a decent engine. there is no shortage of "i got this EJ25 and within a year it lost the rod bearings" or something like that. you'll see far more EJ25's with blown bottom ends than EJ22's, and i woudlnt' be surprised if it's somehow related to the headgaskets. all that to say, maybe you can keep it - but i'd make sure it's good or get another one that is. i'm not saying it's bad but hopefully the people you're getting it from can be honest and give you some details about it. thing is, this 96 should be a great car, so i'd do whatever i could to get a great, reliable car out of the deal. they're nice cars and have air bags and should require less maintenance over the next 5 to 10 years than the loyale. but the loyale is a dang reliable machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublute Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 Thanks for the reply, I have the car and the owner had all the repair records from the time of his getting it. He bought it from a friend~2000 with 68K on it. The shop he took it to is a reliable kinda $$$ place and seemed to be on top of things with detailed repair bills. The car and engine runs smooth and quiet and the pickup is good... well, I am a Loyale owner after all.... I have run it for around 35 miles in the heat and no overheating, but there is oil in the overflow tank, so I assume there is a HG leak. What should I look for in the engine to judge if this engine is OK for a HG job? What should I look for regarding the auto trannie? I'm really unfamiliar with them. All my 10 other Subaru's had manual. It will be a sad day when the 92 Loyale 4WD SW departs. It has been a reliable trooper, but needs some rust repair and a few other things. Maybe somebody on this board would want it, along with the parts to do the work... thanks, sublute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Thanks for the reply, I have the car and the owner had all the repair records from the time of his getting it. He bought it from a friend~2000 with 68K on it. The shop he took it to is a reliable kinda $$$ place and seemed to be on top of things with detailed repair bills. The car and engine runs smooth and quiet and the pickup is good... well, I am a Loyale owner.... I have run it for around 35 miles in the heat and no overheating, but there is oil in the overflow tank, so I assume there is a HG leak. What should I look for in the engine to judge if this engine is OK for a HG job? What should I look for regarding the auto trannie? I'm really unfamiliar with them. All may 10 other Subaru's had manual. It will be a sad day when the 92 Loyale 4WD SW departs. It has been a reliable troopoer, but needs some rust repair and a few other things. Maybe somebody on this board would want it, along with the parts to do the work... thanks, sublute Ask the car owner if they repeatedly overheated the car. If they did not, its a simple HG job. Do both of them and make sure they are resurfaced. Resurfacing (lack of) is one of the biggest reasons that they fail the 2nd time. The auto tranny is a non issue. They will last the life of the car if taken care of. Just make sure all the tires match and are equally infalted. I am in the reverse boat. I love Blu to death, but i want something smaller for around town, so i am not picky if it needs more TLC then blu. I would keep them both. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 in general replacing the headgaskets fixes the vehicles, there's really no test you can do. take the heads to a machine ship and have the heads tested and milled. you want them milled for flatness and surface finish to gaurantee a good headgasket seal. i've seen a few loose bottom ends in a matter of months or 50,000 miles after headgasket replacement. there's no way to test for that, but if the car was driven for awhile when overheating or had significant oil/coolant mixing then i'd start to worry. frankly the 96's do not often have oil/coolant mixing, usually they start with overheating and coolant loss, exhaust gases escaping into the coolant. that you have significant oil in the overflow tells me this one was bad. but...are you sure it's just not a dirty overflow tank? you might want to drain the radiator/coolant and oil to see if it was mixing ,maybe the tank was just dirty. if it turns out it was mixed, make sure to clean things out as good as possible, including the radiator. or since it's 10 years old it may need a new one. i'd also change the transmission fluid, it easily could have gotten hot as well if it's still routed through the radiator coolant lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublute Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 The car was overheated twice from what I can gather. Once was the origional incident down in FLA. They had the radiator changed and they drove it back up to Baltimore with no problem. The second time was when they were headed out for a trip and it overheated a mile from home. Maybe the coolant was low from their trip from FLA??? It was parked and taken to the mechanic who diagnosed the HG. Would the drive from FLA been enough to harm bearings or anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The car was overheated twice from what I can gather. Once was the origional incident down in FLA. They had the radiator changed and they drove it back up to Baltimore with no problem. The second time was when they were headed out for a trip and it overheated a mile from home. Maybe the coolant was low from their trip from FLA??? It was parked and taken to the mechanic who diagnosed the HG. Would the drive from FLA been enough to harm bearings or anything else? I think its fine. Go ahead and have fun. You can do it at your leaisure. Do an oil change, change the raditor for insurance, and enjoy. Of course BLu can always use a little brother, so ..... hehehe nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublute Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 The radiator was changed after the first overheat. I'm sure it will need a good cleaning out now... I'm in the process of ordering the repair records. The T-belt was done 40K ago... I guess I should do that while I'm at it? The overflow tan definately has oil in it and smells like it, too. I don't know if this is the oil blowing off volatiles or also the exhaust gas coming out, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Go to town on this puppy. DO all the seals, water pump, etc that you can. Personally i think you may have gotten the deal of the century nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The radiator was changed after the first overheat. I'm sure it will need a good cleaning out now... I'm in the process of ordering the repair records. The T-belt was done 40K ago... I guess I should do that while I'm at it? The T-belt on the 2.5's is rated for 105,000 miles so I would reuse it - but that's me. Might do the water pump though as it may have been run dry at some point durring one of those overheating spells - that can spell bad things for the bearings. Belt should be ok though. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 if you don't replace the timing pulleys then i'd reuse the belt and go back and replace it in another 50,000 miles, that will give you a chance to inspect the pulleys again. pulleys failing with interference engine = you need a new engine or major head work at best. it does happen. i'd probably replace the water pump for the same reasons GD mentioned. heat is bad. i have yet to personally see a 2.5 with a blown headgasket that had oil/coolant mixing. i have a couple in my garage right now. they've all been just overheating. i know it happens and have seen a few post with that symptom but makes me wonder how much it was driven while hot. nipper - how many do you see with mixing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 if you don't replace the timing pulleys then i'd reuse the belt and go back and replace it in another 50,000 miles, that will give you a chance to inspect the pulleys again. pulleys failing with interference engine = you need a new engine or major head work at best. it does happen. i'd probably replace the water pump for the same reasons GD mentioned. heat is bad. i have yet to personally see a 2.5 with a blown headgasket that had oil/coolant mixing. i have a couple in my garage right now. they've all been just overheating. i know it happens and have seen a few post with that symptom but makes me wonder how much it was driven while hot. nipper - how many do you see with mixing? In the crankase none. You cant really go by the overflow tank, since no one really cleans them ever, so anything in there can be old. You may see some oile like substances, carbon etc, but its not a true crossover. Why the bottom ends go is when people overheat the engine and forget to change the oil afterwards. The oil takes a hell of a beating when the car overheats. This car doesnt sound abused. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublute Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'll double check the overflow tank, clean it out and take a look at the contents. Why would there be oil in the coolant? Isn't that a classic blown HG symptom? You mean it might have been driven for a while hot and this is why the oil is in the overflow tank?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'll double check the overflow tank, clean it out and take a look at the contents. Why would there be oil in the coolant? Isn't that a classic blown HG symptom? You mean it might have been driven for a while hot and this is why the oil is in the overflow tank?? Huh? The overflow tank is a real bear to clean out, ive tried it. There are a lot of nooks for stuff to hide in. Thhe HG seperates combustion pressures from coolant and oil galleys. Some cars (well most) have the oil galleys far from the HG. Coolant in the oil usually shows up in the crankcase, if anywhere, and thats usually from a cracked block (any engine). In subarus the failure occures at the water jacket. The combustion pressure is much higher then the water pressure, thats why soobies dont really smoke when they blkow a HG. ALso it is usually a minor failure in the grand scheme of things. The way they over heat is that the combustion pressure pushes the coolant out of the cooling system. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublute Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 Ok, There is definately oil in the expansion tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Ok, There is definately oil in the expansion tank. That will get in there from the combustion process. All engines burn oil, its just not measurable at the dipstick. It takes very little oil to make a mess in the overflow tank. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 oil in the coolant is typical for "most" headgasket failures, but not on these EJ25 motors. actually it is very rare on these motors. if oil and coolant is mixing that could be a sign that the motor was significantly overheated or driven for awhile in this condition. none of the ones i've seen have had mixing. so that's why i'm trying to figure this out. maybe it's nothing, but i wouldn't want to continue without knowing for sure whether it's oil or dirt. none of the EJ's i have sitting outside right now (all over 100,000 miles) have dirty overflow tanks. the outsides are dirty, but looking in is not. can you just ask the person you bought it from? i've bought a few EJ25 vehicles and looked at multiple others, people are easy to talk to about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublute Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 The overheating happened in FLA and the owner had the radiator replaced. They drove back to MD with no apparent problem. ~A month later and it over heated after about a mile on the way out of town. I think the coolant must have gotten low and they didn't know it. They took it to the shop and they diagnosed oil in the coolant--HG Can this happen from overfilling the oil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 The overheating happened in FLA and the owner had the radiator replaced. They drove back to MD with no apparent problem. ~A month later and it over heated after about a mile on the way out of town. I think the coolant must have gotten low and they didn't know it. They took it to the shop and they diagnosed oil in the coolant--HG Can this happen from overfilling the oil? No. Subaru HG's are odd creatures, very hard to diagnose when they first start out. Your overthinking the issue. Go with OE HG's and make sure the heads get resurfaced and you should be fine. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublute Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 Thanks so much for all your help. I will now go through all the threads and info I can find about doing a HG job. I also have to get a Haynes or similar manual to aid in this. I just talked to a friend about the use of his garage for a few days. I have to find a good machine shop in the area. Any suggestions about places with good OEM part prices? Again, I bet I'll find some good answers in threads about changing HG's. sublute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublute Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 OK, I've been looking at the photo's of the heads and blocks and understand better that oil getting into the coolant is not so common. I'm hoping to find a parts list for doing this job... and a detailed procedure listing... Can you just move the AC coimpressor out of the way and keep the system charged when you remove the engine? My Haynes manual (got it today) says to remove the compressor completely. I continue to read with a hope to learn... thanks sublute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 yes just swing the compressor out of the way. SUbaru may have a HG "kit". nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron917 Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Can you just move the AC coimpressor out of the way and keep the system charged when you remove the engine? My Haynes manual (got it today) says to remove the compressor completely. Yes, you can just flop it over and rest it over where the battery normally lives. I was half expecting the hoses to break, but they held up. EDIT: nipper types faster than I do :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Yes, you can just flop it over and rest it over where the battery normally lives. I was half expecting the hoses to break, but they held up. EDIT: nipper types faster than I do :-) but i cant spell nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Take the 10mm bolt off the a/c line on the firewall and it will give you more slack in the line to get the engine out past the compressor. You might want to think about replacing the EJ25 with a used EJ22. I personally wouldn't put a lot of time and money into a questionable engine, that's been overheated. Around here you can get a good EJ22 at the U pull it yards for $100. The full service yards sell them as low as $300-400. 95 is a direct swap and 96-98 you just need the y-pipe from the car you get the engine out of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now