RallyKeith Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I just helped a friend do the timing belt on his 2001 RS Saturday. When he went to pick up parts he asked if he should get a new tensioner. I told him not to, since in the decade of doing EJ series timing belts I've never had one go bad and the fact that they cost $150 aftermarket. Saturday we do his belt, I use the same procedure as always for compressing the tensioner and pinning it with a nail. Put it all together and start the motor, and the car makes a horrible noise. Pull the cover back off and start the car again to see the belt and the tensioner flopping around. He of course gave me a hard time since it was the only thing I specifically told him not to get. So I wanted to ask everyone here how often they have seen the tensioners go bad, and if I'm just lucky that previous to this I never had one go bad. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I'm with you; never saw a used and re-used one go bad. I've heard that if one compresses the unit too quickly, it could result in failure. But I've never heard of it actually happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 How long did it take to compress the pin? The OEM tensioner costs less than the aftermarket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 You're supposed to compress the adjuster with the rod pointing up/vertical, using no more than 66 pounds of force, and doing it slowly (taking at least 3 minutes -- silicone oil is pretty viscous). If it failed under those circumstances, it would seem you did the best you could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 I had also just done the timing belt on a 93 earlier that same day and had no issues. I used the same method for both. Nice a slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 i've never personally seen it happen, never seen that appeared compromised in any way. completely different, but the XT6 ones are oil fillled and hydraulic in nature as well. i've never seen them fail either, and i've worked on dozens of XT6's with lots of years and miles on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Ive had one go bad on me, ever since then I replace them as part of the repair. Its one of those foolish gambles on an interfernce engine. 150.00 part that you replace once every 105,000 miles (do the math on penny per miles) or a very expensive engine repair. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 So I wanted to ask everyone here how often they have seen the tensioners go bad There is some *confusion* as to what is meant by a "tensioner". In my parts book a "tensioner" (tensioner assembly) is the adjustable belt pulley that the "Adj CP-Belt TENS" rests on. Rather than a "tensioner" (13069 AA035), I *guess* you would call it an "adjuster" (13068 AA026). I had the "tensioner" through-bolt break out of the blue here a while back? Last timing belt job on the car was 2 years 30,000K ago. It was suggested by a dealer mechanic that I over tightened the bolt? I am not understanding, though I do understand an overtightened bolt will fail in short order, this was far from "short order". I was also told by the dealer mechanic that there is a seemingly regular fail rate on through bolts. New bolt, new belt, and it has been good now for 4 months. As far as I know @ 300,000+ miles I am on the original "adjuster". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 There is a HUGE problem with counterfit bolts on the market. When I was working in a QA department we ran into it a lot. Its unreasonable to do a 100% bolt inspection, so you take samples, and even then its the luck of the odds. Bolts shouldnt fail if they have happy little homes. I am surprised that he said they fail reglaurly, that would make me think that something else is wrong, just that it is beyond your control. (and i still have no idea what we are talking about... you just confused me more ) nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 [...]There is some *confusion* as to what is meant by a "tensioner".[...]Just to, umm, "clarify" things, the "tensioner" is also known as the "automatic tension adjuster". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Just a cross reference http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=31586&page=2 (since that thread is an active one too). nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I've blown one of the newer style tensioners that way too. The horizontal 4" long tensioner pistons are way more durable than the other ones, you just throw them in the vice, squeeze them down slowly and chuck a pin in. The new style ones, like the one you broke, MUST be verticle, and can't have much force put on them. So don't just crush them down with a press. You have to be so gentle with them, and there isn't really a way to tell if you broke it untill it's on. When you put it on, turn the engine over with a breaker bar, then reverse the direction for half a turn. The tensioner shouldn't move, if it does, you blew the internal seals out. You're lucky you didn't bend the valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglittledog Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 We had one fail that was 1 month old and professionally installed at a very reputable shop here on our '00 Forester 2.5L. The belt started beating against the timing covers and my wife (her car) shut it down. No damage luckily. They replaced it N/C and said they'd never seen one fail off the shelf like that...I guess everything happens at least once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastrahouse Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I just had the timing belt tesioner fail in my 99 legacy GT. The timing belt and tensioner were replaced by my shop 3 years ago, and this spring the car started running a little rough and idling very poorly. turned out that the belt had jumped a tooth on intace cam on the odd cylinder bank and the timing belt was trashed; it had been rubbing the timing cover. Fortunately for me, the shop paid for the whole job, it was just out of waranty and could have been very expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avk Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I understand that at least on "Phase 1" engines you can replace a new-style adjuster with an old-style, if you also change the mounting bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted September 19, 2007 Author Share Posted September 19, 2007 I understand that at least on "Phase 1" engines you can replace a new-style adjuster with an old-style, if you also change the mounting bracket. I don't think so. Phase 1 EJ25 uses the same tensioner as the EJ18 and Phase1 EJ22. It's a roller bolted off center, and a seperate hydraulic unit to apply tension. Three total bolt holes for that style. The EJ25 Phase 2 tensioner is a singe unit that is held on with only one bolt, and I don't remember seeing any open bolt holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avk Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 The holes are in the bracket bolted to the engine block. What I am saying is that an old style bracket can be installed in place of the new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted September 19, 2007 Author Share Posted September 19, 2007 The holes are in the bracket bolted to the engine block. What I am saying is that an old style bracket can be installed in place of the new one. We are talking about the timing belt tensioner. I think you are thinking of the AC compressor belt Tensioner. The Timing belt tensioner components are bolted directly to the front of the block. There's no brackets involved. The AC Belt tensioner bolts to a bracket that bolts to the top of the block. There are two styles for that tensioner, one that uses two bolts and one that uses three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 click for larger image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 To change a new style tensioner to an older style one, you need Part #5 in the above picture from a 1996-97 2.5l. You can use one from a 2.2l, but you won't have the bolt hole for the center bolt of the drivers side belt cover. Phase 1 2.5l came with both styles, it was a year change. The older ones are better in my opinion, but you can only get them off of the first 2 years of 2.5l's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 I understand that at least on "Phase 1" engines you can replace a new-style adjuster with an old-style, if you also change the mounting bracket. You know, it would help if I could read, and now with the pic I understand what you were originally saying. I've never seen a phase 1 EJ25 with the newer style tensioner, and didn't realize they ever had it. I have 2 Phase 1 EJ25s. One is from a 96, and the other is from a 98, both have the old style tensioner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avk Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Y I have 2 Phase 1 EJ25s. One is from a 96, and the other is from a 98, both have the old style tensioner This is interesting, because supposedly they started using the new type from 1998. Perhaps it was a mix-and-match year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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