MSSLGECKO Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 EA81T Wagon (1983). I'm bleeding the brakes on my wagon tonight & HTKYSA says to adjust the rear drums first. (Do I have to?) It says to jack the car up to do this so you can rotate the wheel to make sure that the adjustment is right. Do I have to jack it up?(it's got a lift so i can access everything else w/o jacking it) Is there another way? Can I bleed the brakes w/o adjusting the rear drums? Thanks, - Noah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Yes you have too, as a misadjusted brake can give you a low brake pedal, even with self adjusting brakes (after you have replaced the shoes). http://www.automedia.com/Drum_Brakes__Rear_Brake_Drum_Adjustment/ccr20030701db/1 nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 Okay, I just turned both adjuster screws on the rear drums and they went all the way in . . . . is it time for new drum shoes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Did you spin the tires, and how much resistance did the screws give you? If the screws easily went all the way in, and the shoes still aren't touchnig the drum, then they are done. At that point, the drums might be done too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 Yeah, they turned all the way in & the brake never touched (wheels turned) Would that cause NO brake pedal pressure? Or is that indicative of a larger problem? I decided to take the car to a shop tomorrow, I don't have all of the tools I need with me and I must drive the wagon home (200 miles) by Monday. I was quoted $160 + 80 (for new drums). I wish I had the time and tools to do it; but, alas I just need it done. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratsrus1 Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Hey Noah This is Jerry, it would be cheaper to swap over to rear disc and the rear disc are a better brake. Thanks Jerry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 Touche, thanks for pointing that out! I don't know how that slipped my mind. (I owe you one Jerry) Now I'm looking for a Disk Brake Swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 The EA-82 rear drum set-up will also swap over to the EA-81's. Just another option for you to get back on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 The EA-82 rear drum set-up will also swap over to the EA-81's. Just another option for you to get back on the road. Yep - and some of them had auto-adjusters too. Weird contraption, and I don't like them since I had one completely eat itself and lock the wheel at freeway speeds. After I beat the drum off with a sledge there were all kinds of little brake "bits" and peices of the adjuster and the master cylinder. It looked like a grenade went off inside there. I have a feeling thats why they stopped using the auto adjusters later in the EA82 line. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Yep - and some of them had auto-adjusters too. Weird contraption, and I don't like them since I had one completely eat itself and lock the wheel at freeway speeds. After I beat the drum off with a sledge there were all kinds of little brake "bits" and peices of the adjuster and the master cylinder. It looked like a grenade went off inside there. I have a feeling thats why they stopped using the auto adjusters later in the EA82 line. GD People make a common mistake. When you replace shoes you really should replace the springs at the same time (no one does it). This avoids a failed self adjuster. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 Well, I'm going to leave the car where it is for now and come back in early december w/ disk brakes to swap on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Well, I'm going to leave the car where it is for now and come back in early december w/ disk brakes to swap on. While it's a fairly simple swap, It's way more work than changing shoes and drums on an old Drum set-up. You'd need calipers, rotors, hubs, and backing plates from a disc brake car. Figure the rotors you can get new and the calipers are easy to find new too(although spendy, about $75 a piece) Then you have to take it all apart, hope your brake lines aren't rusty, and bend the lines to match the disk brake fittings. Seems to me the disk swap would cost minimum of $200, and waaaayyyy more to have a shop do it(which they probably won't because of liability) Who ever was gonna charge 160+80 for drums was overcharging you, at least for the drums. But even that would be easier and probably cheaper than the disk swap. New drums or used ones with enough meat to turn should be 50 bucks, tops, after turning. Changing pads on these old drum set-ups, another $50 to $75,....maybe. That's 125 bucks for the whole job. Unless you are REALLY looking for performance from you're 25 year old economy car, I would go the easy and simple route and get new pads and drums. The adjuster should work fine then. Just don't forget to back out the adjuster before installing the shoes and drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 My car has long since stopped being an little econo-car and is currently lugging 27" tires, which are hard to stop on the highway. I see this as a good opportunity to upgrade the brakes to something more appropriate for this car. Is it hard to bend the hard-lines? Do I need a tool to do it w/o crimping them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 You don't really "bend" the line, atleast I didn't have to. Just twist the end of it so it points up somewhat, and then the flex line off the caliper attaches to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 So, I CAN use the stock EA81 rear hard brake lines, then. Is it easier to pull the EA82T hard lines and install them on my car instead of rearranging the originals? Also, it seems that the consensus according to most members is that a p-valve is unnecessary to swap into EA81 cars (and '82) because the drums operate on the same exact brake pressure as the rear disks do. Also, I've never dealt with hard brake lines before, do I need any special tools? Will box-end wrenches or vice grips work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 You just bend the hard line into a "pig tail" and connect the EA82 soft line. No special tools are required. You should use the proportion valve. I can tell you from experience it makes a difference. If you are running lifted it probably won't matter as much, but since the EA81's have no valve at all (EA82's all have them, and the disc valve is very little different from the drum valve) there's good reasons to install one, and no reasons that I know of not to - other than not wanting to do the extra labor. The cost of the valve is negligible GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 So, I CAN use the stock EA81 rear hard brake lines, then. Is it easier to pull the EA82T hard lines and install them on my car instead of rearranging the originals? Also, it seems that the consensus according to most members is that a p-valve is unnecessary to swap into EA81 cars (and '82) because the drums operate on the same exact brake pressure as the rear disks do. Also, I've never dealt with hard brake lines before, do I need any special tools? Will box-end wrenches or vice grips work? welll You need a valve in the system because of the gap between the shoes and the drum. Well instead of me explaining read this http://www.howstuffworks.com/master-brake.htm nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 welll You need a valve in the system because of the gap between the shoes and the drum. Well instead of me explaining read this http://www.howstuffworks.com/master-brake.htm nipper Um - he's talking about the proportioning valve - not sure how that article relates.... EA81's didn't have a p-valve at all for the rear so it's definitely not required for any mechanical reasons. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Um - he's talking about the proportioning valve - not sure how that article relates.... EA81's didn't have a p-valve at all for the rear so it's definitely not required for any mechanical reasons. GD oh thats right, hes going to 4 wheel disc brakes, my bad. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 Well, I could have started a new thread, but I figured I'd just continue this discourse: I'm removing my rear drums and I can't get them apart!! I've got the axle nut off and the wheels, but I can't pull the hub off the rear drum brakes. Any suggestions on how to do this? My understanding is that they just pull right off, but I've been hammering on it and yelling and spraying penetrating oil all over it and nothing is happening, please direct my anger to a constructive solution! (thanks) Also, 1 of the axle washers (cone-type) doesn't want to come out and I don't have a brass punch handy, suggestions? (I haven't tried hammering a piece of wood on it yet . . . ) Thanks, - Noah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 So I figured out that turning the adjuster screw out all the way allows the hub to come off. The adjuster nuts are all the way in; the first one came out no problem, the other one is getting stripped and won't turn. What do I do ?? I'm having the same problem disconnecting the hard brake lines from the back of the drums; they strip and won't turn any more; what do I do about these?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 So I figured out that turning the adjuster screw out all the way allows the hub to come off. The adjuster nuts are all the way in; the first one came out no problem, the other one is getting stripped and won't turn. What do I do ?? Replace the adjuster. That happens a lot actually. I've snapped a few completely off. If you can't get hte drum off beat it till the pads delaminate from their backing. It will come off, you just have to use brute force. Or if you have a really really big 3 jaw puller you might get it off that way too. Probably just push the axle through though. I'm having the same problem disconnecting the hard brake lines from the back of the drums; they strip and won't turn any more; what do I do about these?? Vice grips or a pipe wrench. You may have to replace that bit of hard line that runs down the control arm. Sounds to me like you should be putting discs on it, or a complete, non crusty drum set at least. Those old manual adjustment drum setups are primitive and usually really crusty and difficult to work on. You may have to put some heat to parts of it if you wish to make them move again. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 something tells me you forgot to use the snap-on 6mm square socket use it to adjust the brakes and valves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 I AM doing a disk brake swap, it's just been a struggle today to remove the drums. I stopped working earlier when I ran into 2 screws that were stripping on me. Can I get a replacement hardline readily from an auto parts store? Vice grips occurred to me this evening and I will try it. I'm not worried about destroying the adjuster screw, I just want it off!! Thanks for the advice, - Noah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSSLGECKO Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 I just sheared off the head of the adjuster screw on the drum. What do I do to turn it out? Suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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