garthpro Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Ok, so it COULD be the wires, even though they charge and arm and an rump roast at Napa! I get a 20% discount and they were still more than OEM! How often do you recommend a change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Yes, Nipper, that link does cover a lot of basic info. Most of it is accurate, but there are a few errors and misconceptions. Some aren't too important (it's "Tesla", not "Teslar", and electromagnetic interference is "EMI", not "EMF", which is electromotive force). Some statements are misleading. An example from the section on point dwell is "The ratio of closed points to open is usually about 3:1.". While that ratio can vary depending on application, it's more typically about 2:1. Under "Common problems with a conventional ignition system are:" is "Timing belt (chain) wears and/or breaks "; well, as we know, that isn't limited by the type of ignition. Still, not a bad article, but I'd suggest reading it with a grain of salt. Its the best I could find that wasnt from my own brain Its also a bit old, but i was only looking for wire info ... nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Ok, so it COULD be the wires, even though they charge and arm and an rump roast at Napa! I get a 20% discount and they were still more than OEM! How often do you recommend a change? Always USE oe on subarus, ESPECIALLY if OE is cheaper. I change mine once every 100,000 miles, or if the car gives me a reason to change them. nipper wow i wonder what kind of mark up NAPA is getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Always USE oe on subarus, ESPECIALLY if OE is cheaper. I change mine once every 100,000 miles, or if the car gives me a reason to change them. nipper wow i wonder what kind of mark up NAPA is getting. $72 with discount! subie was 60 (BEFORE discount!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 So in your professional opinion, do you think this could be it? the wires that is/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 If the wires you have on there now are fairly new then I myself doubt that new wires will fix this. I could be wrong though. I would more suspect carbon buildup or valves causing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 http://www.subaruparts.com/catalog/?section=914 You can dump a can of seafoam in there first and see what happens. But lots of us have had bad expieriences with brand new wires that were not subaru. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Wouldn't I be able to check by swapping #2 to #4 wire? then re-read the code after it shows up again? Or is it possible that a carbon build up presented due to a poor firing due to the faulty Coil? Therefore the initial problem is fixed (new coil), but before the fix, it caused a secondary problem? am I thinking down the wrong path here? I am trying to learn how a professional thinks, that is why I ask so many questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 You can swap wires, but you have to swap those two first, then leave themswapped and swap the wires on the other side. This is a waste spark ignition, so 1-2 and 3-4 fire together. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 ok, I will get a read, reset, and then make both swaps. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 If its a missfire you can't feel, dont forget to clear the codes too. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 If its a missfire you can't feel, dont forget to clear the codes too. nipper yup. I appreciate all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Read the codes yesterday at advance auto. same "S" P0304 so the wires are on the way. if that doesn't work, ? well, maybe that front O2 sensor then Valve adjust if all else fails... If that fails, leave the keys and drop the car in the hood I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meeky Moose Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 i hadthe#4 misfirecode onmy 01 outback... only 65k miles... i went as far as swapping an injector with #2.. then i swapped the #4 WITH #2 WIRE.. reset and drove.. code flipped to #2 cyl.. so i knew it as the wire.. wven tho it woud shoot spark out the end of the wire 4" lol.. try swapping #2 ad 4 wires.. reset the ecu and see what pops code wise.. that will rule out the wire issue.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Ok, so it COULD be the wires, even though they charge and arm and an rump roast at Napa! I get a 20% discount and they were still more than OEM! How often do you recommend a change? i have seen NEW aftermarket wires cause cylinder misfire codes. replace the wires and codes go away. others have had it happen as well. this isn't Subaru specific - it's EJ engine specific, they are not forgiving engines when it comes to ignition wires. i can't promise this is your problem, but i have seen it before....hopefully someone can help you diagnose more to pinpoint it. the wire swap should help show a bad wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 If the wires you have on there now are fairly new then I myself doubt that new wires will fix this. I could be wrong though. I would more suspect carbon buildup or valves causing this. while I have seen new wires cause this, i do agree that there's a good chance new wires won't fix it. particularly being NAPA brand, i've never seen them, but would think they are better than others. a simple wire swap should take less than one minute and cost nothing. reset the codes and see if it "moves" with the wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 I did this and it didn't change things. But I have since replaced the ignition coil. Gonna try it all, if it ever gets above 10 here! I lost access to my heated garage when my buddy flew south for the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 If that front 02 sensor is older than 40k miles, maybe replace it. My 2001 Forester demands a new one every 40k. But I do mostly city driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 If that front 02 sensor is older than 40k miles, maybe replace it. My 2001 Forester demands a new one every 40k. But I do mostly city driving. Does that throw an independant code? or just the misfire code? P0301,2,3,4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Does that throw an independant code? or just the misfire code? P0301,2,3,4 Usually, if you use an OE o2 sensor, it will last way beyond 100,000 miles. Mine lasted 180,000, and it saw a hell of a lot of NYC driving (you dont get much more city then that). Th o2 sensor usually throws its own code unless its long in the tooth, and getting lazy. there are tests with a multimeter you can do check the sensor. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 my front sensor has at least 80k on it, that's the amount since I got it. but I guess, since they last up up to 180, purchased at 140k, it could be original.? what is the test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 ok, swapped plugs and wires to OEM and NGK platinum drove ~325 miles. no light, left the station after gasin up, less than a mile light back on. THIS HAPPENED while accelerating from a dead stop. also the gas mileage has dropped to 23ish highway, from ~26.5 preach away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 sorry Garth, I know you do not like being "preached to" You will need to see what code is stored now. You can not just assume it's the same one. Maybe you left the gas cap loose - for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthpro Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Sorry I didn't note that I checked when I got home. same "S" P0304 misfire #4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I'd say, time for a Diamond coil pack. I saw you changed it but did not see what brand or from where. Plus I think you should listen to WAwalker and his valve adj advise. He is one of THE best techs we have here. This seems to have been dropped back on page one. If you did have them checked/done and I missed it, I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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