dhewitt Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Before I came over here to get some advice about my axle replacement problem (idle vibration with a NAPA half-shaft), I had posted to the Car Talk (NPR) message board. Check out the comments by "ok4450" - he called (some of) you delusional morons... what a jerk: http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/691615.page Needless to say, I'm glad I found you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I always went by the rule that once you start calling people names, you lost the argument. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsboy Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Gotta love people. Youre welcome to hang here from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 [...]Check out the comments by "ok4450" - he called (some of) you delusional morons... what a jerk: http://action.publicbroadcasting.net/cartalk/posts/list/691615.page [...] Interesting reading. "What you should do is invite any of those morons on the Subaru board who claim what you state to be true to this board and let them post that half-baked theory here." is an excellent example of why I post on USMB and not elsewhere. As much as the relationship between vibration at idle and half-shafts may seem "half-baked" to "ok4450", I tend to put more faith in numerous anecdotal reports of cause-and-effect than the best of theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Funny. He must have been sick on the day they went over "theory and operation of automatic transmissions". There is still torque being applied to the axles on a car with an auto trans, weather moving or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Funny.He must have been sick on the day they went over "theory and operation of automatic transmissions". There is still torque being applied to the axles on a car with an auto trans, weather moving or not. I thikn he was sick on a lot of days.... nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Funny.He must have been sick on the day they went over "theory and operation of automatic transmissions". There is still torque being applied to the axles on a car with an auto trans, weather moving or not. I should have said: "when in gear, weather moving or not" In case he decides to come over here to learn:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Did you look at his bio? He claims to be, "Factory trained and certified in Subaru' date=' VW, SAAB, and some Nissan along with being a licensed aircraft powerplant mechanic." [/quote'] I love it when people tell me something I just did could not happen.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 There's some truth to ok4550's satement that "There is no way on God's green earth that a faulty half-shaft is going to cause a rough idle while the vehicle is stationary and not moving.". However, the discussion wasn't about idle roughness, but vibration; some roughness at idle (especially when in gear) isn't unusual, but feeling it to a large degree is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 There's some truth to ok4550's satement that "There is no way on God's green earth that a faulty half-shaft is going to cause a rough idle while the vehicle is stationary and not moving.". However, the discussion wasn't about idle roughness, but vibration; some roughness at idle (especially when in gear) isn't unusual, but feeling it to a large degree is. I was just going to say that! Rough idle to me is totally different than a vibration through the steering wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I think there was some confusion from the get go. Seems the excess vibration (due to faulty axle) was perceived to be a low, rough idle, (thought to be related to work performed during timing belt replacement. Thus adjustments being made to try and raise idle speed). Excess vibration at idle being perceived as rough engine running is a fairly common misconception. Anyway, glad it is fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhewitt Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 I think there was some confusion from the get go. Seems the excess vibration (due to faulty axle) was perceived to be a low, rough idle, (thought to be related to work performed during timing belt replacement. Thus adjustments being made to try and raise idle speed). Excess vibration at idle being perceived as rough engine running is a fairly common misconception. Yeah, I hate to admit it, but I think my very first post was a bit confused - "low idle". But, if the dumbace had thought a little bit instead of going off on a rant he wouldn't have made a fool of himself. He just posted another retarded diatribe. His profile at the NPR board is a *little* egotistical, and it's not impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Dunno how cross-forum posts are tretaed here, but... http://subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11678 I for one am treating his Q as a serious question (out of politeness), and I'll enter into discourse with him as long as he's civilized (3, 2, 1...). What do you guys think of the axle-length theory? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I think it has more to do with tolerances and the after market axles being too tight. I would love to disect a good OE axle and an aftermarket axle and blueprint them. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Have heard the length theory. Don't know how much difference there would need to be to cause a problem. But is would have to be significant to bottom out the DOJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daehttub2000 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 LOL. You’ve run into the curmudgeon of the Car Talk board, OK4450. Think of an Andy Rooney with good days and really bad days. I’ve encountered him on that board before. He’s one of the most prolific and opinionated posters on that board and is helpful most of the time. He also divulged that he has an old Subaru 4WD in a recent post so beware, he could be lurking around here someplace:rolleyes: . He means well and does really try to help people, however, he does have his off days (as you have noticed:lol: ). Unfortunately, you get so many people on the Car Talk board that you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. You’ll find some really loopy stuff posted. The USMB is, IMHO, a very select group of Subaru fanatics who really know their stuff. This board should be your first stop for anything Subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I have learned to shy away from the "diagnose all car problem boards no matter the make" and tend to stick to boards that are manufacturer specific. Just another internet jerk, nothing new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ok4450 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well, this is OK4450 and no, I have not been a member of this board until tonight. CarTalk is the only forum I deal with and for one reason only: I honestly enjoy trying to help someone with car problems. It's the same reason I always carry a box of tools and supplies in my car. More than once I have stopped on the roadside and repaired a car for someone free of charge, even when the car owner was insisting on paying me. Read the entire thread on CarTalk and note that I was polite with Mr. Hewitt up to a point. He stated that the advice he was being given here was from people who own shops, are Subaru pros, etc. My comment then was that anyone who believes a vibration problem is caused by a non-rotating mass is delusional. So, how many here are shop owners and Subaru mechanics? I will maintain to you that an auto transmission in DRIVE, sitting stationary at a traffic light will not vibrate due to a half-shaft. It may vibrate for any one of a hundred reasons but the axle shaft is not one of them. From the wheel lugs clean through the entire differential, NOTHING is moving when the vehicle is at an idle. The one Mr. Hewitt should be upset with is his mechanic who has been altering things he should not alter. Maybe Mr. Hewitt should email the EPA tonight and mention his mechanic's name to them and see what they have to say about that little alteration. As to my qualifications I don't care if you believe them or not. The certificates say otherwise. As I stated, Car Talk is about the only forum I frequent and for the reason I mentioned. Yes, sometimes people do get upset with me but it's generally not because I rip into them and name call. Usually it's because I can be brutally honest and since they don't like the message, choose to shoot the messenger. To close this particular post, and seeing as how I have not seen any technical analysis of this problem from anyone other than ripping into me, I would ask again what your Subaru qualifications? Mr. Hewitt stated that many or most of you are shop owners, Subaru techs, etc. I also remember daehttub2000's ID but I don't remember your complaint. Give me a few search terms and let's research the problem you had. Believe it or not, respectfully yours. OK4450 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ok4450 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I would also be interested in hearing from Mr. Hewitt about why he thinks my Car Talk profile is egotistical. That comment makes no sense to me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I fail to see your reason for making a profile on here for nothing more than to continue an internet post war. Obviously, Mr. Hewitt came over here for a second opinion and has tried to provide us with some insight into the car troubles that he is having. And judging from your comment: "What you should do is invite any of those morons on the Subaru board who claim what you state to be true to this board and let them post that half-baked theory here." I don't believe you will be welcome here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ok4450 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Not to be accused of hiding out is why. Still, what I am looking for is a technical explanation from some of the Subaru pros here about why a non-rotating, stationary mass will cause a vibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well, this is OK4450 and no, I have not been a member of this board until tonight. CarTalk is the only forum I deal with and for one reason only: I honestly enjoy trying to help someone with car problems. It's the same reason I always carry a box of tools and supplies in my car. More than once I have stopped on the roadside and repaired a car for someone free of charge, even when the car owner was insisting on paying me. Read the entire thread on CarTalk and note that I was polite with Mr. Hewitt up to a point. He stated that the advice he was being given here was from people who own shops, are Subaru pros, etc. My comment then was that anyone who believes a vibration problem is caused by a non-rotating mass is delusional. So, how many here are shop owners and Subaru mechanics? I will maintain to you that an auto transmission in DRIVE, sitting stationary at a traffic light will not vibrate due to a half-shaft. It may vibrate for any one of a hundred reasons but the axle shaft is not one of them. From the wheel lugs clean through the entire differential, NOTHING is moving when the vehicle is at an idle. The one Mr. Hewitt should be upset with is his mechanic who has been altering things he should not alter. Maybe Mr. Hewitt should email the EPA tonight and mention his mechanic's name to them and see what they have to say about that little alteration. As to my qualifications I don't care if you believe them or not. The certificates say otherwise. As I stated, Car Talk is about the only forum I frequent and for the reason I mentioned. Yes, sometimes people do get upset with me but it's generally not because I rip into them and name call. Usually it's because I can be brutally honest and since they don't like the message, choose to shoot the messenger. To close this particular post, and seeing as how I have not seen any technical analysis of this problem from anyone other than ripping into me, I would ask again what your Subaru qualifications? Mr. Hewitt stated that many or most of you are shop owners, Subaru techs, etc. I also remember daehttub2000's ID but I don't remember your complaint. Give me a few search terms and let's research the problem you had. Believe it or not, respectfully yours. OK4450 You insist nothing is moving, but the engine is rocking back-and-forth. Perhaps this is a vibration source? I did post a technical analysis of possible causes, and I didn't rip into you, so lets hear what you think of what I said? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Not to be accused of hiding out is why.Still, what I am looking for is a technical explanation from some of the Subaru pros here about why a non-rotating, stationary mass will cause a vibration. Welcome to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhewitt Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Still, what I am looking for is a technical explanation from some of the Subaru pros here about why a non-rotating, stationary mass will cause a vibration. Welcome fella. I think CNY_Dave (thanks man) has provided some good details that you're ignoring, which seems par for the course. I especially liked his approach to these kinds of problems, which seems rational: My attitude towards investigating something like this is not to say "here's why it can't happen", but to say "lets assume it does happen, what are the possible causes?", that is, to conduct a thought experiment. I don't know the mechanical aspects. All I know is that on this last trip to the mechanic the car was still making the same vibration that it had on two NAPA axles (we were on the second one, the first developed a click not long after it was installed and was replaced on warranty). Then, my mechanic did the following (and this is ALL): 1. took the old axle out 2. put in the new axle in ... vibration is gone. You seem to enjoy getting hung up on the fact that my mechanic futzed with the throttle screw (fair enough), but you're ignoring that other people have had this same problem without anything to do with a timing belt change. Thus, all your other ranting about timing, wires, etc. doesn't apply to them. If they get the same result by just putting a good axle back in, it's hard to see why we need a complex explanation for someone just looking to fix the problem (make the vibration go away). Occam's razor... (Sorry to USMB for having to tolerate this.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 (Sorry to USMB for having to tolerate this.) Tolerance little grasshopper. Discussion is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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