ahole Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I just put in my new GCK axles and I now have a shaking, felt under my feet, during acceleration. It only happens at slow speeds and only under load. It was silky smooth before I replaced the axles. Anyway, I've read around and found that it may be the engine/tranny mounts. How do I check them, and would I feel the vibration under my feet? Could I have somehow put them in wrong? There are no weird noises or anything lock to lock. I also heard bad DOJ, but doesn't that happen when decelerating? While doing my lock to lock test, I heard a very small pop, and then the shaking subsided a little. Could it just be that my axles are new and need to be broken in? This was my first axle job in a FWD (4WD) car so I don't know what I'm doing exactly, but the replacement went quite well and I was surprised at the vibration. By the way, this is a 91 Loyale with a D/R 5 speed, a lift, and EA82 SPFI.:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 all things should be inspected - axle nuts, pins, whatever you touched/removed to replace the axle. search on here and you'll find that buying aftermarket axles is a waste of time. there are numerous accounts of aftermarket axles causing all sorts of problems. my guess is you got a bad axle. get a good subaru axle and replace the boots or order from MWE. anything else and there' a high risk of getting an axle with issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 all things should be inspected - axle nuts, pins, whatever you touched/removed to replace the axle. search on here and you'll find that buying aftermarket axles is a waste of time. there are numerous accounts of aftermarket axles causing all sorts of problems. my guess is you got a bad axle. get a good subaru axle and replace the boots or order from MWE. anything else and there' a high risk of getting an axle with issues. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 What did you torque the axle nut to??? Sounds to me like you may not have gotten it tight enough and are eating the splines in the hub. Don't let it go like that long or you'll end up changing the hub too. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 And how much of a lift does it have? It could be binding if you have a big lift on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Vibration during acceleration that goes away during trailing throttle is a chronic symptom of a bad DOJ on the axle. Even newly rebuilt axles can be bad. Notify the place where you got them. I'm almost certain it's your axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I had two new GCK axles on my hatch, it did the same thing, the shakes calmed down after a while but never went away. But then the output shaft seals started to leak! It is a sign of a bad DOJ, as mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 The DOJ is probably binding because it is new - the grease may not have been properly applied inside the joint. The likelihood of the joint actually being bad is very low. What you are experiencing is a new joint with very tight tolerances that is binding slightly as it turns resulting in a non-constant velocity shaft speed - much like what a u-joint would do at angles over 15 degrees or so. You have several choices - you can just take them back of course. But my opinion is that the joint components are probably sound being they are brand new and made by CNC - they are close tolerance machined parts and each and every axle has a high probablility of being identical to all the others. I would at least try inspecting the grease on one of the DOJ's. It may be poor quality, too small a quantity, or perhaps it has drained away from the joint components durring shipping. One thing I do with axles prior to installing them is work the joints by hand to check for binding and massage the boots to make sure the grease is evenly distributed. I can't say for sure how many axles I've done, but it's somewhere north of 50 and south of 100 I would guess. I have yet to experience the "bad new axle" phenomenon. I've done over a dozen GCK's when I could still get them and since then I've switched to EMPI's. In fact, besides my off-roader, I have yet to install an axle and have it fail again after. If you watch the boots and the fuel mixture they should last at least 100,000 miles. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahole Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 I'm going to try regreasing the DOJ. GD, since you have experience with these axles (GCK), I wonder if you or anyone else know what kind of grease to use. I don't want to attempt removing the old grease since it's still new, but I don't want to mix types because some are not compatible with others. I guess if it's red I'll just assume it's regular bearing/axle grease. Any input that is not just a guess will be appreciated. Thanks people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 When I helped to manage two NAPA stores a few years ago, we could order just the grease pack for the axles. It was the same packet that came with the boots when you ordered a boot. Try your auto parts store. it think it was just Moly grease (Molybdenum). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 It's NLGI grade 2 "extreme pressure" grease with Moly. Basically that's a fancy way of saying it's GP moly grease. The FSM calls for "Molytex #2 or equivelent"... which is an old Texaco trade name (before they merged with Chevron). Here's a pic of what I get at my local NAPA: (the packets are a rip - buy a tube for the same price). GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 While I have heard many good things about the GCK axles, I have found them to be worse than my used subaru ones. The binding you're feeling is not a "tight" joint breaking in. It's all supposed to be hardened steel in there, and there shouldn't be wear. I've blown at least 2 GCK outer CV's, as in have them explode without any warning on the street, and had one inner let go. It had vibrated from the start, and I knew it was junk when pieces of the tripod bearings began poking holes through the boot. Take them back, or put the good stock axles back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahole Posted August 8, 2008 Author Share Posted August 8, 2008 At risk of doing this , I have a couple more questions for those of you with more experience in these matters. I noticed today that I don't get the shaking when the weather is cool and the engine is cold. When the engine heats up, the shaking happens (I feel it in the pedal, not so much the floor). Could this mean bad engine mounts? How do I tell if they are good? Also, while regreasing the DOJ, I saw that there is play in the splines on the tranny side. Its about equal on th driver and passenger side. Not a whole lot but more than I expected (maybe 1/32-1/16 inch). Is this normal or should this interface be pretty solid? Thanks for all of your help so far, I'd like to get this buttoned up so I can stop thinking about it and work on my motorcycle. BTW, if I need to return these axles, does anyone have contact info for GCK? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 That's weird about feeling it in the pedal.... the pedal is connected to the engine only by the throttle cable - mostly it's attached to the firewall. Could be engine mounts. There should not be much play at all in the splined stubs on the tranny. What you may be experiencing is tight axle joints exposing a vibration in your loose stubs. That's entirely plausible although I hadn't thought of it till you brought it up. Unfortunately there's no good way to fix that as the rings that set the bearing play also set the ring & pinion gear lash. If you move them without dismantling the tranny and doing it right you risk severe ring & pinion wear and destruction of the front diff. It may be time to start looking for a cheap tranny replacement. One of the stubs on my hatch is like that and leaks around the seal just a bit. But it has 240k on it and I figure when it goes I'll put in a 5 speed. The EMPI axles don't vibrate much but they don't feel quite as tight as the GCK's did from what I remember. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahole Posted August 8, 2008 Author Share Posted August 8, 2008 The play that I speak of is not in the stubs themselves. The play is in the interface (splines) between the stubs and the axles. It's as if the axle splines are slightlly bigger than they should be. I believe that my tranny is just fine. Does anyone know how to check for bad engine mounts? I don't want to just replace them because it looks like it's not a fun job. Same with the tranny mounts, although they would be quite easy to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahole Posted August 27, 2008 Author Share Posted August 27, 2008 Problem solved. Thanks you guys, you were right! I took out one of the new axles (driver's side) and replaced it with one of the old ones and voila, shake gone. So now a new question: Does anyone have contact info for GCK? I haven't been able to find their number or website. I need to return this turd and get my money back. I bought it through amazon. Do I have to return through amazon? Thanks for any input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I need to return this turd and get my money back. I bought it through amazon. Do I have to return through amazon? Thanks for any input. If you do, tell me how. I've got 2 that are busted that I got through amazon. I traded the ones I bought from autozone for reman ones after I blew them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahole Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 After searching fruitlessly for GCK's contact info, I contacted amazon. Their return policy is 30 days from purchase. I told them about what happened with my axle and they said they'd make a one time acception to this rule and they emailed me potage and everything:clap: . 91Loyale, i wouldn't get your hopes up, but it's worth a try. Although I'll never buy GCK again, amazon came through and I will definately shop there again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruparts Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 The play that I speak of is not in the stubs themselves. The play is in the interface (splines) between the stubs and the axles. It's as if the axle splines are slightlly bigger than they should be. I believe that my tranny is just fine. Does anyone know how to check for bad engine mounts? I don't want to just replace them because it looks like it's not a fun job. Same with the tranny mounts, although they would be quite easy to replace. Hi, Just so you know there are 2 sizes diameter stub axles, on ea transmissions, therefore there are 2 sizes of joints that fit on them, so if you install the larger size on the smaller stubs then there is SLACK as you mention. so do check if this may be the issue. from what I read the larger joints will fit and drive the car but the splines will give it up soon enough. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahole Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Thanks for your concern, but I put the old axle back in and it fits the same way. There doesn't appear to be any unusual wear on the splines either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Hi, Just so you know there are 2 sizes diameter stub axles, on ea transmissions, therefore there are 2 sizes of joints that fit on them, so if you install the larger size on the smaller stubs then there is SLACK as you mention. so do check if this may be the issue. from what I read the larger joints will fit and drive the car but the splines will give it up soon enough. lol What you mention is the difference between the 25 tooth and 23 tooth splines. If you put the 25 tooth joint on a 23 tooth stub, you'll shear off the roll pin the first time you apply power (been there and done that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahole Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Thanks edrach! I was starting to wonder: "These axles are from my single range and I put in a dual range. I wonder if they are different and I never noticed. I've never heard of 2 different diameters." Thanks for clearing it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Thanks edrach! I was starting to wonder: "These axles are from my single range and I put in a dual range. I wonder if they are different and I never noticed. I've never heard of 2 different diameters." Thanks for clearing it up.Single/range and dual/range are the same. The difference is for the turbo (25 spline) and non-turbo (23 spline). There are other minor differences but they are not nearly as important. Somewhere someone posted the page from the FSM which pointed out the differences in part number, spline count, and shaft strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahole Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 I read that. That's why I was surprised to hear about 2 different diameters. Good thing he was wrong. I counted splines before I installed them. I know I have the right ones. Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 you'll shear off the roll pin the first time you apply power (been there and done that). +1. Bought a wagon for $100 because of that. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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