fajr22 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 i know this is my first post, but I was taught when i was young, if you don't know ask, it can save you a lot of money down the road... So here it goes.. I am building a race car, a ministock. The rules say i can use any car after 70, it must be 4cyl 2.5 liters or less 2wd, meaning fwd or rwd, but not rwd IRS.. The car must be less then 102 inch wheelbase, and cannot be labeled as a sports car.. Due to past rules written against me they no longer allow turbo chargers.. The car has to weigh a minimum of 2300lbs. The car must appear stock and use stock efi or carb components for year make and model.. This being said, and after a trip to the track to watch a honda prelude (190hp stock) clean house, I have chosen a 96 Impreza 2 dr, 2wd.. The car has been converted to fwd only, and I have removed the 1.8. What I have so far is a 2.5 sohc shortblock, a 90's 2.2 legacy turbo drop out and a non turbo 2.2 drop out and 2 1.8 dropouts.. I have a fidenza 2.5 flywheel along with a race clutch, CAI and a chip.. I do not mind spending money , but I only want to spend it once.. What is the easiest power out of this setup.. Ie; What cams? What heads on which block?? What throttle plate?? What trans will hold up to the power?? what injectors?? what exhaust?? What type of power can i expect from it?? The track is a 1/3 mile asphault oval, and I held the track record in a full race Mustang @ 17.89 on Radials.. The reason I am going away from mustangs is most track rules are written around them and I want to race something that is different and has an abundance of aftermarket parts.. I believe with the research i have done the Subaru is the right candidate, I just need the right recipe.. Any help would be greatly appreciated.. I will update with pics as i progress on the car... Any parts you have to sell and links would be great as well thanx fajr22@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykeys Toy Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I cannot help you but I can send you to Qman.. do a search for him. he is all about naturally aspirated (N/A) and it has served him well. he may not tell you everything but I am positive that he will at least help you get rolling. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fajr22 Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 I cannot help you but I can send you to Qman.. do a search for him. he is all about naturally aspirated (N/A) and it has served him well. he may not tell you everything but I am positive that he will at least help you get rolling. Mike thank you very much i plan on spending a lot of time here and appreciate your honest effort.. fajr22@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 why do the rules outlaw RWD IRS?? that rules out a lot of cool cars... are they trying to keep the mustangs from getting romped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fajr22 Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 why do the rules outlaw RWD IRS?? that rules out a lot of cool cars...are they trying to keep the mustangs from getting romped? By eliminating certain cars it limits what you have to tech... Can you imagine the number of cars you would have to be familiar with to tech all 4 cylinder cars?? Most classes have two or 3 makes to tech, when you get in the ministock class of 4 bangers, there are literally a hundred options.. That in a nutshell explains it.. This is also why I have gone away from the Mustang is because its over teched.. fajr22@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 look up "cobb" tuning. i think they have a few parts for the n/a 2.5l engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 1/3 mile oval. What speeds are we looking at. Do you need top end or torque? One option is to take the 2.5 shortblock and bolt the 2.2 heads onto it. The end result if a torque monster. Do a search on NASIOC for frankenstein engines. The EJ22T shortblock that you have is the closed deck one and would be great for turboing or I guess you could run a high compression motor with it. You would have to get high compression pistons to do that. The 1.8 lifters can be put onto the 2.2 heads. They are roller rockers and solid lifters. with the High comp motor use some cometic head gaskets. They have a special pattern avaliable for the 2.5/2.2 head motor. RE: Tranny. You are pretty much stuck w/the FWD imp/leg tranny. I don't think there are any differences. In the class rules do you have to source parts w/in the model or can you cross models? ie for the imp, can you use leg parts? Not really a performance improvement, but this increases your pool of parts. Can you use parts from a 2002 WRX or are you limited to what was avaliable for your chassis years? Technically, the older imp's model years are 92-96 and 97-01. If you can manage to get the entire range of years for the GC body, you will have access to parts from the 98 RS. Bigger brakes etc. Since soobies are all like legos, you could take the entire suspension and engine from an RS and put it into the 96. This will give you better handling and stuff from a car that was intended to be for performance driving. Other than that it's pretty much up to you. Are you working w/a 96 sedan or a coupe? Coupe is obviously a lot lighter, either case, if you have the resourse and time, it might not be a bad idea to seam weld and brace the chassis b/c it's definately a lot flexier than the RS. BW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fajr22 Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 1/3 mile oval. What speeds are we looking at. Do you need top end or torque? One option is to take the 2.5 shortblock and bolt the 2.2 heads onto it. The end result if a torque monster. Do a search on NASIOC for frankenstein engines. The EJ22T shortblock that you have is the closed deck one and would be great for turboing or I guess you could run a high compression motor with it. You would have to get high compression pistons to do that. The 1.8 lifters can be put onto the 2.2 heads. They are roller rockers and solid lifters. with the High comp motor use some cometic head gaskets. They have a special pattern avaliable for the 2.5/2.2 head motor. RE: Tranny. You are pretty much stuck w/the FWD imp/leg tranny. I don't think there are any differences. In the class rules do you have to source parts w/in the model or can you cross models? ie for the imp' date=' can you use leg parts? Not really a performance improvement, but this increases your pool of parts. Can you use parts from a 2002 WRX or are you limited to what was avaliable for your chassis years? Technically, the older imp's model years are 92-96 and 97-01. If you can manage to get the entire range of years for the GC body, you will have access to parts from the 98 RS. Bigger brakes etc. Since soobies are all like legos, you could take the entire suspension and engine from an RS and put it into the 96. This will give you better handling and stuff from a car that was intended to be for performance driving. Other than that it's pretty much up to you. Are you working w/a 96 sedan or a coupe? Coupe is obviously a lot lighter, either case, if you have the resourse and time, it might not be a bad idea to seam weld and brace the chassis b/c it's definately a lot flexier than the RS. BW[/quote'] I definately need torque... The car needs to be stock appearing and since there is nobody running one it is open to a lot of leeway.. If it says subaru and fits impreza, it is basically game.. The car is an OBD1 95 coupe, The speeds are basically 70 to 80 mph tops.. the track is flat, so i will need some good suspension.. the Rs is a great idea and i have a 97 legacy OBack I just hauled tonight for parts It has a 2.5 dohc, Is the block the same from the sohc to the dohc??? I have read a lot about the 2.5 with 2.2 heads.. Which 2.2 heads are best?? Were you saying I should use the 1.8 roller rockers on the 2.5, with 2.2 sohc heads? The other question i have is what is the best headpipe, injectors and T-body for the application... Who makes the best cams at a reasonable price and where do I get them.. I here a lot about delta but doing a search pulled up little to nothing.. i did find some piper cams?? delta seems to be household and quite popular i just do not know how to locate them.. thanks for the info and any other you have for my new questions would be great.. Sounds like I have a lot of the right parts so far.. Lastly who supplies the special head gaskets so that I can order some thanx Again fajr22@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 RE: Tranny. You are pretty much stuck w/the FWD imp/leg tranny. I don't think there are any differences. BW actually the legacy tranny uses the 25 spline axles and the bigger clutches. (so go with the legacy tranny clutch and axles) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 just had a nice thought... EA series cars are lighter than imprezas.... just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 ^^ the car has to be over 2300lbs... an impreza can easily be made to that in FWD and you get more suspension options. the DOHC 2.5l you got isn't as good a block as the SOHC. (3 main vs. 5 main) use older legacy 2.2 liter heads as they are dual port exhaust. if you want to spend the money, then get them pnp'd with the manifold. there is a dealer on http://bbs.legacycentral.org/ for this work. get a cam grind from delta camshafts. a 2.25" exhaust seems to be the most effective size. use the legacy FWD trans if you want to stick with a stock unit. bigger axles and clutch. there are TONS of suspension options for these cars. for the brakes if it has to 'appear' stock, get subaru 4 piston fronts with 2 piston rear... they are red, and say subaru on them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 ^^ the car has to be over 2300lbs... an impreza can easily be made to that in FWD and you get more suspension options. yea, and an EJ motor. yea, taking advantage of an EA car is awesome, as long as you have EJ power. a non-turbo EA? compete? hahahaha. a built EA81 could be done, but even then.... a FWD impreza is definitely the ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 he never said he couldn't do an engine swap... in fact he is doing one... (but yeah I know the weight difference is negligable once you start stripping it/modding) I just think that would be cooler... lol do you have pics of the Race car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 use stock efi or carb components for year make and model.. ... which, FYI. imprezas didn't get a 2.5 until '98. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 if he uses the 95 computer and sensors... that's stock EFI.... sort of.... and by "mustangs are over teched" I think that means "I can't get away with any little cheats" which is not bad in that kind of motorsport (I am unfortunately from Alabama and know this) it's more like common practice.... you fudge a little or get lapped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpycam Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I don't know much but I do know a frankenmotor is what you want!!! ej25 with ej22 dual port heads(high compression 11:1).It's low buck and very torquey motor , add some cams, head port and header and you pushing 200 ponies! Also a lightweight flywheel and lightweight front pulley to help with revs. Good luck with whats sounds like a fun project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fajr22 Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 Your are correct, I was asked to leave the track and not bring my mustang back... I raced there for 10 years, and wehn the tech guy changed so did the rules... The problem was he could not disqualify me from the race, he just didn't like me, and knew i was doing something but did not know what.. I figure if i build a Subaru there is nothing to compare it to... The only reason I would not run an old subaru is i live in the rustbelt, and they are gone.. no parts to choose from.. i did know the 2.5 was not available in my car, but in short... i have already taken car of that issue.. the Sohc block has mor mains then the dohc, is that correct?? I am piping now and will post pics soon.. keep the info coming , I am currently ordering cams fajr22@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 If you want to part with the legacy EJ22 turbo shortblock for some money towards the racecar, I will buy it off you. I get up to Maine every few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matts87glsedan Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fajr22 Posted September 1, 2008 Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 I have a set of older heads from the 2.2s.. Do the turbo heads flow better?? Where do I get the commetic gaskets for the swap, and the place I thought I was ordering the cams from can't get them, is there a link to a vendor or a recommended vendor to buy these from... Also which injectors are best, I have a slew of parts laid out and want to get it put together soon if at all poossible,,, THanx fajr22@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I have a set of older heads from the 2.2s.. Do the turbo heads flow better?? Where do I get the commetic gaskets for the swap, and the place I thought I was ordering the cams from can't get them, is there a link to a vendor or a recommended vendor to buy these from... Also which injectors are best, I have a slew of parts laid out and want to get it put together soon if at all poossible,,, THanx fajr22@yahoo.com You can buy the gaskets straight from the maker. Cometic.com. If you are ordering it for the frankenmotor, just tell them that and they will be able to help you. One thing to remember. The headgasket holes are not perfectly matched. I had to round out some of the holes for the water jacket to make it work right. The key is to take the old gaskets and line it up w/your new gasket to make sure the holes line up. If they don't, then take a look at the block/head to see where those holes go. I dremel bits and some small files will help with getting the hole to right size. Just make sure that you deburr the holes so that it will compress right. Re: injectors. IIRC, the EJ22T are 370cc. The EJ18's are i think less than 200. not sure. One thing that you can do to the EJ18's is to take some of those micro drill bits and enlarge the holes at the ends of the injectors. Take a set out and look at them and you will see what I am talking about. I have a set of Yellow 550's from a newer STi and the injectors are almost the same except the 550's holes at the end of the injectors are larger. Or you can find a set of 550's and use the EJ18 fuel rails to bolt them to the EJ22T manifold. While you are at it, it might not be a bad idea to make parallel fuel circuits. The stock fuel system is a series circuit. It goes from the driver's side bank to the passenger's side. On high powered and turbo applications there are some problems with the the last cylinder on the passenger's side running lean b/c it's the last one in the circuit. The parallel circuits would feed each bank seperately. You will need to get fuel pressure regulators put to the ends of each of the banks. Not a hard thing to do, but will ensure more stability in fuel supply to you motor. BW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 only difference between 22t and 22e heads are the holes in the passenger side head for the oil and coolant lines for the turbo. actually, the single-port exhaust, solid-liftered 2.2 heads flow better than the older ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 If you change the injector size, there is no way to compensate for it with the older ECU. You'll have to run some sort of aftermarket engine management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 yeah you'll be on the verge of grenading the 2.5 on the 1.8 management.. (or are you going to use a 2.5 computer and I missed it) you will have to run high test fuel and watch the higher revs... I have a friend who does circle track in the dirt... he runs a Neon and spins it to 11KRPM it's stupid! (maybe you should go for higher revs for less shifting?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 yeah i know a guy that used a 2.5rs and put a two wheel drive(fwd) legacy tranny and kicked rump roast!! that would be the way to go if you could find a deal:headbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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