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Turbo, Rebuild or Repalce with stock WRX turbo????


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29 replies to this topic

#1 garner

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 09:39 PM

So, I've got a couple of IHI RHB5 turbos sitting here. One is toast, the other has a bit of shaft play but certainly rebuildable.

I started pricing rebuild kits for the RHB5 and was sticker shocked. The want $100-$125 for bearings, seals, screws etc.

I know I can buy low millage stock WRX turbos on ebay or NASIOC for not alot more than that.

My question is will the stock WRX turbo be too much for my EA82T?

#2 Dr. RX

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 07:57 AM

Well, when you add the fact that you will have to modify you exhaust system to match the bolt pattern on the WRX turbo, and modify your air intake to the turbo, the cost of having the exsisting turbo rebuilt looks better. Actually I don't thing that is a bad price range for getting one rebuilt.

#3 Qman

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 12:02 PM

Corky is right on all statements. That price is cheap. They get a G note to rebuild them for you. If you can get the parts and are comfortable doing the rebuild your self you could do 5 + and still not have spent what some charge for one.

Converting to a WRX turbo is alot of work. Been working/watching Tex on his conversion. You can't just swap exhaust it has to be modified to accept the turbo.

#4 garner

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 01:13 PM

Thanks guys

I failed to mention one thing....

The rebuildable turbo will require exhaust mods as the hot side has different shaped flanges than the stock.

Intake will also be modded to use a WRX intercooler.

I am planning on solving the hot side flanges with adapter plates that will bolt between the up and down pipes and the turbo. At some point I plan on fabricating custom exhaust bits and replacing the pipes all together.

So, still think it's the rebuild that makes more sense?

#5 Dennis ex24

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 01:16 PM

VF11 or TD04 is the way to go, you will get tired of the stock turbo, its useless after 13PSI. if you go with either, you will have to swap unless you want custom piping built.

go on NASIOC and buy a stock WRX turbo back system from one of the guys in the for sale forums, they can be had cheap. the exhaust will fit but it may hang alittle lower than you would like. this would also be a good time to invest in an intercooler and the Y pipe that goes with it.

have you fit or at least eye-balled the engine in the brat? (is that what youre transplanting the stuff into?)

the spider manifold is en route as of my lunch break today...

#6 Qman

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 01:40 PM

The turbo back exhaust is a piece of cake. You have to modify the cross-over(front side). If you are planning all of these mods then one more isn't gonna be a big deal at this point. It would have been benefiacil to know this the first time. It sounded like you were just going to swap turbo's.

#7 Dennis ex24

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 02:48 PM

hey Q...

its necessary to mod the crossover? the TD04 shares the same uppipe bolt pattern as VF series turbos, including the stock EA82 unit (VF7?)...

i hadn't heard anything like that yet, what has to be tweaked on it?

i did alot of research in this department. i didnt give it the attention tex did because im not sure there will be much of a difference between the VF11 i use and the TD04 hes got if you are sane and dont boost over 14-15psi with out getting into copper HG's and other stuff...

#8 Subarutex

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 03:09 PM

Sorry dennis... the uppipe flange is different. 2 of the 3 studs are almost spot on. If you ovalized the holes on the turbo you could get it to drop on them. However, the 3rd stud is too close to the other 2. It needs to be back about 1/2" - 3/4".

Remedy this by picking up a WRX uppipe (~$30) and cutting the flange off. Then weld it to the top of the existing flange. This will guarantee the turbo sits level and the downpipe geometry isn't messed with. This additional height will aid in clearing stuff engine wise with the plumbing, it should also help to snug the exhaust up a bit.

It might still be necasary to rotate the intake housing on the turbo to get the plumbing to clear everything.

Some where on that big internet you can buy just the flange... But i'm not sure how much its going to run.

I'm not sold on copper's yet. I believe that a properly put together engine should be able to hold 15psi or more. WRX guys run up in the 20's on stock engines.

#9 garner

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 03:29 PM

I don't think the mod will be too much. I've got access to pretty much every welder, plasma cutter, machine tool etc.

However, I might not even need to rebuild the turbo I have. Last night, I filled the oil inlet and spun the shaft a bit, let it sit over night and the little bit of play in the shaft nearly went away.

Hey Dennis ex24, Know anything about the RHB5 VJ5 turbo? It's the turbo, that I have and am thinking of using.

And yes, I've measured the Brat and the motor, it's gonna be tight but I can make it work well without messing up the frame rails or anything. As far as I can figure though, I'll have to pull (or atleast lift) the motor to get heads etc, off. I'm goning to physically test fit the motor in a couple weeks

#10 Qman

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 05:10 PM

You will need to mod the engine crossover to accomodate the turbo's up-pipe. You'll understand when you go to put it in.

#11 Dennis ex24

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 06:08 PM

good info tex

i guess when looking at all this stuff, it starts to look the same after a while - and good to see youre giving some an additional road to go down. although im still confused as to why the WRX guys all want the turbo legacy catless uppipes if they are a different bolt pattern?

15PSI is definitley possible with an intercooler and stock cams but im curious as to what these cams were all installing will do for timing.

sorry garner, i dont know what a VJ5 is. i wonder if its a legacy unit because you noted that the wheel was slightly bigger. try posting a thread on NASIOC...one of those turbo nerds is bound to know what it is.

#12 WJM

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 06:40 PM

I never had any issues with timing with the delta cams.
Oh, VJs are what them Honda guys use on their crap. some JDM stuff for inline 4 cars that are tranverse mounted engines...

#13 Subarutex

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 07:24 PM

Well dennis... that is an interesting thought. Could it be that they switched turbo's over the years?? I really don't have an answer.

#14 Dr. RX

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 09:16 PM

If it is a Legacy turbo, it will have the same bolt pattern as the WRX turbo. On the WRXs they used the Mitsubishi turbos, but on the WRX STi Type RAs they used the IHI turbos (same manufacturer as the ones used on the EA82s, but a different size). The type RAs are basically street going race cars.

#15 garner

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 06:14 PM

Ok,

So after thinking maybe this VJ was all good and not in need ov rebuilding after oiling it and getting the shaft play to mellow out, a new problem has shown itself

When I drained the oil out of the port a bunch came out of the wastegate side/exhaust port. Bad seals?

Now that we've been around and around on this, what would you do?

Rebuild Turbo = $100 parts, plus mods to exhaust and intake

WRX stock turbo = $150-$175 plus exhaust and intake mods

Beyond the $$$, how would the TDO4 work with the EA82T, will it be slower to spool than on the EJ20? I know it will provide more boost than my motor will handle and I can cope with this but I do want quick spool-up

Whose runnign what tubos out ther and what thinkith yee?

thanks,

garner

#16 WJM

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 06:29 PM

I would think that with an open intake and exhaust, the TD04 would spool just fine....and with a WRX IC, it woudl be fine to run the stock 13.5 psi that its set at.

#17 Dennis ex24

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 09:08 PM

the TD04 turbo may be a little sluggish to spool at first from a dead stop on a stock 1.8L but top end will be a blast. im experiencing the same thing with the VF11 but the cams look like they may remedy this on paper.

were all going to be finding out about the same time it looks like...who is going to have the fastest EA82T? any votes?

#18 josh long

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 10:27 PM

If you do not have the ability to measure the shaft O.D., and the bearings and I.D. and O.D. and the cartridge I.D. as well.

Turbos and their "seals" are very exact in tolerances. The "seals" are more like rings than seals. If you cannot measure correctly these tolerances and or do somthing about bum measurements, have somebody do it for you.

They then need to be balanced.

You should pay between $200 and $600 to have it rebuilt.

Learn form my mistakes I tried and then had a $135.00 box of parts.

Josh

PS if you have a bum one and want to see how they work take it apart! You cant make it any worse!!!

#19 WJM

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Posted 12 February 2004 - 11:12 PM

I am going to put those cams in my wagon next....plus a stock WRX TMIC...and I guess we will see what mine does with the 9.5:1 and stock turbo.

#20 garner

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 04:42 PM

Josh,

Thanks for making mistakes for others to learn from.

Do tell, what went so wrong with your $135 box of parts?

I have taken my rebuildable apart pretty easily after getting some info off the internet. Doesn't one just replace the seals and bearings and such or was there more to your rebuild (or de-build, as it were)

garner

#21 rallyruss

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 08:29 PM

the balancing is the other part josh mentioned. rather important for long life.

go WRX turbo. our stock turbo is too small.

#22 josh long

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Posted 13 February 2004 - 11:03 PM

The problem is the center cartridge wears over the time of its life. If you order the standard size rebuild kit, it fits a new, not worn cartridge. So it will infact do nothing for your shaft play. If the seat in the exhaust side is not perfect and in spec you get smoke. The problem with balance is they spin so dang fast. much faster than most garretts will ever see.

My issues were I bought a standard kit for my blown mitsu 14b and the cartridge was worn. It smoked just as bad when done, as before. I later sold my cores and kit to a turbo rebuild shop for a small loss.

After I put my group A t3 on my Mitsubishi, I may try the 14b on my subie.

Josh

#23 garner

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 09:38 PM

Josh, I get it now. Its like main bearings where you have to order specific oversizes. Does seem like a pain

In the mean time, I snaged a TDO4 on ebay(sorry if I snipped anyone on the Board on this:D) for $137.50 shipped. Not bad and one less greasy mess to clean up.

I think I can overcome slow spooling issues once I fab up some kick rump roast exhaust and intake and get her breathing better.

Actually, now that I think of it, with this turbo and the WRX IC, I am also close to having a turbo kit for my Impreza :brow: :headbang: all for just a bit over 2 bills

#24 WJM

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 08:35 AM

great! keep us up to date on how everything works out once installed...and also keep us up to date on the upgrades and work to get all that installed!

#25 carfreak85

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Posted 19 February 2004 - 03:31 AM

So the consensous is that the TD04 will have bad low end, but good top end power? Tex would you agree? Cams (or in my case, singular) would help build low end boost?




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