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recently purchased 96 legacy, some issues and questions on recommended repairs

legacy 2.2 water pump gaskets seals

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15 replies to this topic

#1 cymbri

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 03:08 PM

It's a 96 Legacy LS 2.2 L SOHC with 202,000 miles on it, and unsure of previous maintenance.

 

It had a bad water pump, replaced water pump, timing belt, thermostat, wires/spark plugs, changed oil.

 

It has a slow oil leak coming from the front passenger side of the engine, so I am planning to replace both cam seals, crank seal, and cam oring(s).

 

It has a constant check engine light, it kicks the knock sensor code so I am planning to replace the knock sensor too.

 

The battery terminals corrodes really fast, so I am planning on replacing the battery, battery cables and terminals as well.

 

It seems to run great most of the time, but it sporadically will crank and not start (cranks fine, not slow or tired at all). I have tried disconnecting the battery and reconnecting the battery in case of a sensor issue, and tried jumping it in case of low battery issue. Tried flooring it to start it as well. Previously, when it decides not to start, it won't start at all, but if I try to start it the next day, it'll start immediately. Last night I was out and it wasn't starting so i had my boyfriend bang on the fuel tank in case of a fuel pump/fuel filter issues. A few minutes after the fuel tank banging, it's started fine.

 

It also sporadically has trouble responding to me depressing the gas pedal. I'll depress the pedal a bit more to accelerate, and it'll almost seem to do nothing, until I depress it a lot more, then suddenly the rpms will jump and it will suddenly start to accelerate. It seems to have this issue more when I am driving up hills. Other times it will maintain speeds of 40+ for a bit with my foot off the gas ans without decelerating much.

 

So I believe that replacing the fuel pump and filter will fix the starting problem, and the acceleration issue. I am hoping that the acceleration problem is not the transmission.

 

Do my proposed repairs align with the issues I'm having? And is there any other maintenance that would be recommended on my car since it's got so many miles and an unknown maintenance history? 

 

 



#2 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 04:39 PM

throttle cable may need some attention/lube.

possible throttle position sensor problem i guess.

can you read the codes(s) ? AutoGroan and places like that will read CEL codes at no charge.

most people report good luck with inexpensive knock sensors as from ebay, rockauto, etc. Clean the block where it goes on, point the cable the same direction as the old one, don't over torque the bolt.


maybe someone else will chime in with advice.

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 24 August 2013 - 04:39 PM.


#3 cymbri

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:37 PM

I had a place read the code, they told me the code number but all i remember is Knock sensor. I'll have the throttle cable looked at, and I can have the TPS  replaced if I still have problems after I replace the fuel pump and knock sensor, thanks!

 

I took it to autozone and advance auto but the people who work there were all like it's a '96, and we only have obd2 scanners you need obd1, but the person doing work on my car told me that even though my car is older it should be ob2. I can always go back to an auto parts store and lie about how old my car is lol


Edited by cymbri, 24 August 2013 - 06:39 PM.


#4 mikec03

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:48 PM

Just tell them that it is obd2 complient.  I have a '95, and it's obd2 complient too.  It only takes them a few sec to read it, but you may have to point out where the socket for it is [hint, above the drivers left knee].



#5 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:44 PM

In the US, all cars were required to be OBDII in 96 so, those counter jockeys need a lesson. Some 95s and maybe a 94 Nissan were even OBDII earlier than required.

#6 heartless

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:27 AM

I also have a 95 that is OBDII - so the counter-jockeys at your AA & AZ are wrong...

 

just a quick question about the timing job - did you replace the idler pulleys as well (4 of them), or just the belt? If you didnt do the pulleys, I would do those too when you go in to do the seals - at over 200K they are a source of concern. typical timing job at that kind of mileage includes all the front seals, the pulleys, water pump, t-stat and the belt.

 

also, are you 100% sure the belt is installed correctly - it is possible to be a tooth off on the belt and still have the car run, but it can cause some strange issues.

 

some great reference materials for you: 1996 Legacy FSM (open and save to your computer)

 

oh, flooring the throttle will not help a no start situation on a fuel injected engine - just an fyi



#7 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:35 AM

supposedly, there is a 'clear flood' mode triggered in the ECU at full throttle during start only. The ECU will cut the injectors off/way down so a flooded engine has a chance to start. Some people run into this in cold weather when they start the car, move it 20 feet, turn it off, get out to close a gate or garage door (for example), then try to restart. The cylinders can have too much fuel sitting in them.

Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 25 August 2013 - 08:38 AM.


#8 lmdew

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:17 AM

If you need a TPS I have several.  

 

When you crank and it doesn't start does it have spark?  

 

You may have a cam or crank sensor going out.  

 

An oil leak at the back of the engine is most likely coming from the breather plate.   The RTV fails when the screws loosen.  Also make sure  you PVC valve is working.



#9 heartless

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:29 AM

supposedly, there is a 'clear flood' mode triggered in the ECU at full throttle during start only. The ECU will cut the injectors off/way down so a flooded engine has a chance to start. Some people run into this in cold weather when they start the car, move it 20 feet, turn it off, get out to close a gate or garage door (for example), then try to restart. The cylinders can have too much fuel sitting in them.

 

I guess I have never run into that situation - if the weather is cold, I am not going to shut the car off for just a minute or so to close a gate, or whatever...kind of sensless really - it uses less fuel to idle that minute or so than it would to shut off & then restart...not to mention maintaining, or increasing (if it is still warming up), temperature for heat purposes...

 

An oil leak at the back of the engine is most likely coming from the breather plate.   The RTV fails when the screws loosen.  Also make sure  you PVC valve is working.

 

the oil leak mentioned is "coming from the front passenger side of the engine", not the back...altho this is a common leak...

 

depending on where exactly that leak is manifesting itself, it could be several different things - or a combination of them.

cam seals are only one source, cam case covers (often erroneously called valve covers) also tend to leak - the rubber seals tend to get hard with age, there could be a leak at the oil pressure sending unit, and sometimes a power steering leak from the low pressure line at the pump resevoir can be mistaken for an engine oil leak as it drips onto the timing covers...



#10 Fairtax4me

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:29 PM

flooring the throttle will not help a no start situation on a fuel injected engine - just an fyi

It can if the cylinders are flooded for some reason (Injector leaking down) because WOT commands the ECU to turn off the fuel injectors so any liquid fuel in the cylinders can be blown out.

Doesn't sound like the issue here, but if it is its possibly because of a bad coolant temp sensor.
I'm not positive the fuel pump is the culprit either. Pumps in these don't go bad very often. I'd pull the uppermost fuel hose off of the fuel rail next time it won't start and see if its getting fuel. (Stick the hose into a bottle then turn the key ON.)

Edited by Fairtax4me, 25 August 2013 - 10:32 PM.


#11 cymbri

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:24 PM

I also have a 95 that is OBDII - so the counter-jockeys at your AA & AZ are wrong...

 

just a quick question about the timing job - did you replace the idler pulleys as well (4 of them), or just the belt? If you didnt do the pulleys, I would do those too when you go in to do the seals - at over 200K they are a source of concern. typical timing job at that kind of mileage includes all the front seals, the pulleys, water pump, t-stat and the belt.

 

also, are you 100% sure the belt is installed correctly - it is possible to be a tooth off on the belt and still have the car run, but it can cause some strange issues.

 

I'm sure it was installed correctly, not all of the pulleys were replaced, but I did replace the two bad ones



#12 cymbri

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:38 PM

If you need a TPS I have several.  

 

When you crank and it doesn't start does it have spark?  

 

You may have a cam or crank sensor going out.  

 

An oil leak at the back of the engine is most likely coming from the breather plate.   The RTV fails when the screws loosen.  Also make sure  you PVC valve is working.

I haven't tested for spark, but it sounds the same as it does when it doesn't start, as how it sounds just before it does start. I haven't pinpointed the source of the oil leak, but it pools just about under the oil filter, but is coming from somewhere above the filter. I will have the PVC valve looked at, thanks!



#13 cymbri

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:47 PM

I guess I have never run into that situation - if the weather is cold, I am not going to shut the car off for just a minute or so to close a gate, or whatever...kind of sensless really - it uses less fuel to idle that minute or so than it would to shut off & then restart...not to mention maintaining, or increasing (if it is still warming up), temperature for heat purposes...

 

 

the oil leak mentioned is "coming from the front passenger side of the engine", not the back...altho this is a common leak...

 

depending on where exactly that leak is manifesting itself, it could be several different things - or a combination of them.

cam seals are only one source, cam case covers (often erroneously called valve covers) also tend to leak - the rubber seals tend to get hard with age, there could be a leak at the oil pressure sending unit, and sometimes a power steering leak from the low pressure line at the pump resevoir can be mistaken for an engine oil leak as it drips onto the timing covers...

 

I checked ALL of fluids when it started leaking, everything was fine except the oil was lower than the day before by about 1/2 quart.



#14 cymbri

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:48 PM

It can if the cylinders are flooded for some reason (Injector leaking down) because WOT commands the ECU to turn off the fuel injectors so any liquid fuel in the cylinders can be blown out.

Doesn't sound like the issue here, but if it is its possibly because of a bad coolant temp sensor.
I'm not positive the fuel pump is the culprit either. Pumps in these don't go bad very often. I'd pull the uppermost fuel hose off of the fuel rail next time it won't start and see if its getting fuel. (Stick the hose into a bottle then turn the key ON.)

I will try that, thanks!



#15 johnceggleston

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:50 PM

the hard / no start could be the ECTS, the 2 wire temp sensor on the crossover pipe under the intake manifold, passenger side.

if the ECU thinks the car is cold when really it is hot, it will / may not start.

 

+1 for thew cheap ebay knock sensor.

if you are in a hurry, i would buy one in the US not one coming from china.

there will only be a few dollars difference.

 

the ''press the gas and no go'' is a puzzler.

i have a similar problem in the mornings before it warms up.

i'm thinking , dirty something.

i doubt it is mechanical, like a cable, or the fuel pump, but that is just a guess.

 

i'm going to try seafoam, just for grins.

i did plugs and wires last year and cleaned the MAF.

maybe the IAC ???

even so it acts like a tune up issue.

 

good luck.



#16 cymbri

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:05 PM

the hard / no start could be the ECTS, the 2 wire temp sensor on the crossover pipe under the intake manifold, passenger side.

if the ECU thinks the car is cold when really it is hot, it will / may not start.

 

+1 for thew cheap ebay knock sensor.

if you are in a hurry, i would buy one in the US not one coming from china.

there will only be a few dollars difference.

 

the ''press the gas and no go'' is a puzzler.

i have a similar problem in the mornings before it warms up.

i'm thinking , dirty something.

i doubt it is mechanical, like a cable, or the fuel pump, but that is just a guess.

 

i'm going to try seafoam, just for grins.

i did plugs and wires last year and cleaned the MAF.

maybe the IAC ???

even so it acts like a tune up issue.

 

good luck.

If the press gas and no go issue was a tune up issue would it do it all the time? Cause it only does it sometimes and sometimes it keeps speed for like 30 secs or so with no gas on a flat road







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