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XT6 rear hubs EOI in 5x100 & 5x114.3 ?


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192 replies to this topic

#1 dfoyl

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 05:16 AM

Hi,

I am looking at making up a few sets (around 25, depending on interest and viability) of XT6 rear hubs in Taiwan, as Crossbred Australia did several years ago.

 

The difference is I am thinking of making them with the factory 5x100 PCD, as well as 5x114.3 PCD for those who wish to run SVX/Tribeca front hubs - thus giving access to a much wider range of wheels (my problem with 5x100 on a BRAT/Brumby is the offset makes factory wheels hard to find - basically some VW/Audi & Dodge Neon are the only ones with an offset around +32/+35). 

 

5x114.3 gives access to Jeep, large Chrysler, Mazda, Mitsubishi, larger Toyota and Lexus, Honda and Nissan wheels - and quite a few of those brands have plenty of models with suitable offsets.

 

Thoughts ?

 

 

 

 



#2 wagonist

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 05:06 PM

Possibly. I did have a set of those hubs (and sold them), but the wheel locater was no where near long enough. The brake rotor was located ok, but the extra part out was too short. Especially if going to be wheeling, I don't like locating just by the wheel studs.



#3 dfoyl

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:02 PM

Off a Tribeca or a SVX ?

 

I should have mentioned in my first post that the offset issue applies only to MY's...

 

To support the 5x114.3 I would need to increase the OD of the XT6 hub by at least that 4.3mm all round so there is sufficient material around the stud. This adds cost in three ways - raw material (though likely it will be from a common solid bar, so it may actually be fractionally less turning), additional drilling of 5 holes, and overall weight so freight costs go up. So I'd want to get at least some interest to support the extra cost in engineering. If no-one sees the value I'll drop out the 5x114.3 from the plan.



#4 wagonist

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:42 PM

If you increase the diameter, then the earlier (ie Liberty, Impreza) 5x100 rear brake rotors won't fit.

 

FWD/AWD Toyota Celicas (and derivatives like the Caldina) have factory offset of 39. 3 or 4mm spacers & you're sweet. I've got a set of factory 15" Caldina GTT wheels sitting at home wasting away.

 

BTW, Neons aren't 5x100 either. They are 5x 4" (which is 101.6mm). Trust me, a mate bought a damaged one to fix & found it impossible to find wheels in this country that fitted.



#5 wagonist

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:45 PM

BTW, I'd previously bought an RX Turbo that'd been converted to WRX running gear. They'd used drum brakes off the rear machined down to make hubs. No wheel or rotor locator though :(

But I'd thought about making up a ring that presses into a groove machined into the face. Or making up another ring that fits on the front & is held on by the axle nut (how this works with the cone washer is something I'd never got too far with)



#6 dfoyl

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 02:42 AM

I thought Chrysler stopped with 5 x 4" with the VG Valiant and the Neon, etc, were 5x100. I've thankfully never owned a Neon :)

 

Can't run spacers legally here.

 

I've heard of the machined drum option, and actually cut one down to the same size as a XT6 hub last night as my Crossbred sample from Jules (toonga) had a chewed-out spline - the amount of machining isn't worth it, you have to mill down pretty much every dimension and as you said you end up with no wheel or rotor locator. 



#7 Numbchux

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 09:03 AM

Yea, if you're switching to 5x114.3, you'll likely be looking for different brake options, too (which you'll have a ton of options....might even be able to use 5x114 subaru stuff...). But, yea, I don't think there's a good way to have both patterns in the hub, as the 114 will require a larger OD of the hub, which won't fit in most 100 rotors.

 

 

 

The end product would definitely be useful. SVX front suspension/brakes are very different than other Subarus, so probably not much help there, but there are plenty of other Subarus that are 5x114.3 and everything else is very similar (Tribeca, '05+ STi, '15+ Outback, '15+ WRX), it's definitely a MUUUUCH more common bolt pattern.



#8 wagonist

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 04:45 PM

Can't legally run spacers anywhere. Doesn't stop us from doing it :P Not so sure about legalities in the US. From what I've seen, appears that anything goes...

 

The machined drum option can be used to locate the brake rotor, just not the centre hole, but rather for the drum diameter.

 

At least in this country, you're better off going for 5x100. 5x114.3 on subies (with the corresponding brakes) is pretty limited. (see list in previous post). None of these cars are that common on the road here.

5x100 you can pick up anywhere second hand. Our cars don't deteriorate as quickly as other countries (thankfully), and aren't so numerous (not so thankfully :P )



#9 dfoyl

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 02:29 AM

Thanks guys, looks like the plan is to run 2 sizes - a larger batch of the 5x100 and a small batch of the 5x114.3 but with a larger OD. Will update next week when I get the feedback on the 5x100 sample and indicative costs. 



#10 ausmattw

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 11:06 PM

Any progress to report on this dfoyl?



#11 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 11:41 PM

Why not making them 4X114.3?

 

Such size is plenty of factory Wheels with much better offset.

 

I run my Subie with Redrilled 4X114.3 hubs since 1996.

 

Kind Regards.



#12 wagonist

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 04:57 PM

But what brakes to run then? you're still running standard brakes.

I think the idea is to get an upgrade that standard replaceable parts will fit onto.

The 5x100 is a known conversion that's achievable.

 

Any turbo conversion here is supposed to be approved. Usually, that means a brake upgrade. factory 4wd disc brake rear ends are thin on the ground :(


Edited by wagonist, 15 December 2015 - 04:59 PM.


#13 D3F0

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:38 PM

I have a set of  5x100 xt6 hubs for my RX. I am Very Interested in whats going on here. 



#14 dfoyl

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 09:31 PM

Hi guys, I'm still waiting on my guys in Taiwan to complete 2 sets of samples (two different suppliers). I am currently o/s myself (NZ), but am back for Xmas and then heading over to the Taiwan factories in mid January to do an audit on them (my employee is sending me over for a systems upgrade, so I'm going to put aside some personal time for the hubs). Both suppliers are working on the stock 5x100 PCD versions at this stage, the 5x114.3 will come later depending on demand.  Jeszek is correct on the offset, it is a lot easier to get stock wheels with the right offset in 114.3 PCD than in 5x100 (to suit an MY, an L-series is fine), in retrospect I would have done 5x114.3 on my Brumby...).



#15 jread

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 11:57 PM

Do you even have a rough estimate? Very interested!

#16 dfoyl

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 05:20 PM

it will depend on the numbers (volume through EOI's) I get once I have the samples validated. I'll post up in the FS section when I reach that point. I also need to look into the logistics of shipping direct from TW into the US, as shipping individual sets will be expensive due to the weight.



#17 dfoyl

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 02:40 AM



#18 dfoyl

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 03:19 AM

Rough cost estimate $85 US per. Still negotiating on volume. Samples next week.



#19 jread

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 02:42 AM

Interested to see how this turns out!



#20 Nico

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 02:18 AM

Rough cost estimate $85 US per. Still negotiating on volume. Samples next week.


WoW I was google searching and some how came this way !

I actually was doing this idea in my head last week with my machine shop !!


I'm sick of this 5x100 and limited 16x8 wheels options out there for my white sedan


If you make a replica of the rear XT6 hub in 5x114.3 I want a set ASAP !



I run the large STi hub up front with the unboltable bearing and I had to machine the face and drill to get it to 5x100... I rather bolt in the bearing with 5x114.3 and have millions of wheel options !

#21 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 05:47 AM

... Jeszek is correct on the offset, it is a lot easier to get stock wheels with the right offset in 114.3 PCD than in 5x100 ...

 

... I'm sick of this 5x100 ... I rather bolt in the bearing with 5x114.3 and have millions of wheel options !

 
Yes, that's what I was saying.

Kind Regards.



#22 Bantum

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:34 AM

Hmm, I've been following this & have Wondered wouldn't it be possible to locate markings for all three PCD sizes 140, 114, 110 ( making a!!ownce for the largest ) on the drawing at least, then when it comes to manufacture can do a selection of either ?

As to the drawing above, my query is how does the disc fit / mount on this hub ? As doesn't show it ( even in dashed outline ) + the actual PCD size given states 99.5 mm - not sure if that is accurate ( manufactures tolerance ? )

Would be good for those interested in keeping the old 4×140 alive ...

Cheer's, Bantum ...

#23 dfoyl

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 06:28 AM

I got back from Thailand yesterday after seeing the manufacturer the week before in Taiwan - samples weren't ready as there were a few open questions - and yes, the dimension check of 99.5mm was one of them (I asked them to increase it to exactly 100.00mm - my guess is OEM accuracy). The others were relating to heat treatment (28-32 HRc was as measured on the sample, but they measured on the XT6 copy I sent (which had a chewed-out spline), so they are now checking against an OEM sample which had a good spline, the taper runout and the bevel angle (I gave them an OEM part to ensure accuracy, this is the wedge shaped piece in the center of the hub where the 32mm nut tightens up against). I also provided an OEM wheel stud so they can check the size provided is correct (I contacted Dorman for sizing and they wouldn't give an exact answer beyond the hole size should be 0.005" smaller, which equates to a really oddball size (.49" minus 0.005" isn't a standard drill size, the closest was a metric size from memory).

 

On the question of provision for all three common PCD's, the 5x114.3 would need a larger diameter hub as there isn't enough meat left. However, what could be done is a pre-drilled pilot hole for those who wanted to go 5x110 (but they what would you use for the fronts ?)

 

The disc mounts on the hub - well, I'd have to show you on my Brumby but it's STILL at the shop waiting for new AC pipes (last step in the EJ conversion)...then I can get it back and then I can fit the WRX brakes that I've had freshly repainted Rio red to match the body...



#24 wagonist

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 05:36 AM

XT6%20HUB_zps1bm4if9h.jpg

I'm seeing a bit of a problem with the design.

 

The 2.7mm lip that's sticking out into where the wheel goes, is that the wheel locater? And high high is the locater for the brake disc? I'm guessing that's the 58mm dia?

 

If you've assumed that this bit sticking out is the locater for both the brake disc and the wheel, then this is wrong for an EJ style brake. They actually step out a bit. ie the brake disc centre bore is larger than that for wheels.

And 2.7mm isn't sufficient to locate a wheel on. Most rims have a chamfer on that inside edge. Ok, we've got the wheel studs, but in heavy duty offroad (or racing), that's not sufficient. If this is being designed from scratch, then why not have a proper locater built in? (This was a big problem with the previous hubs built by someone else in this country)



#25 dfoyl

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 06:22 AM

The design is exactly as per the previous hubs - it was derived from a sample that I obtained from another member (toonga on AUSubaru). I had read they were identical to OEM XT6 hubs (my original XT6 hubs are fitted to my Brumby at the moment, which is as mentioned earlier still getting the EJ AC pipes modified) - I will have to check when I get it back.

 

Either way, I'm happy to have changes made to improve the design as long as it doesn't affect usability for both MY and L applications. Let me know what you think is a suitable lip for the locator and I can have the drawing revised.






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