38 replies to this topic

[avatar382]

Not that there are any hills in So. FL (or florida in general, come to think of it..)

All 80's scoobs with 5MT (GL, DL, XT, RX, etc) have hill holder right? How does this device work and how do you use it?

[Sweet82]

It doesn't work and you don't use it!

There is a spring loaded cable that goes from your clutch pedal to your brake system. When you press the clutch pedal in, the cable pulls a valve shut on your brake system. As you release the pedal the spring opens the valve again.

My cable broke when the car was 3 years old and I have never fixed it. I know others will disagree but, I think it's dangerous for offroading as it gives un-natural response from the vehicle. (it won't roll back with the clutch in).

My .02
Glenn
82 SubaruHummer, not a fan of the HH clutch
01 Forester

[archemitis]

mine worked just fine, but i never had the need to use it. i would realy rather use the emergency brake, if i am ever in that situation. i disconnected mine, with the ea82 swap and dont miss it at all =]

[suberdave]

i have hill holders on 2 of my 3 gl wagons, and i love them...

i can send my wife to seattle where the hills are rather steep. and not have to worrie about getting a call... umm... yeah... honey... i rolled back into another car...

yeah if mine broke i would spend the money to get it fixed.

i dont have one on my off roading rig. but for the street there awesome

-=suberdave=-

[avatar382]

So if the car rolls back with the clutch in, you don't have hill-holder, right?

[BlueSoob]

or else its really loose.

Having a hill holder was the ONLY way I was talked into getting a 5spd Forester. For some reason, Subaru put them back in the 03 Forester. But when I tested out the new 05 Outback/Legacy. they didn't have them in anymore.
The hill holder was nice for the first 20,000, I used it more as a training device. Its not real helpful to me anymore. I loosened it up ALOT after they replaced my clutch under warrenty. I hated sitting even level and having that thing engage.
Plus, I have learned the beauty of a hand brake. Its too bad that in most trucks there isn't a hand brake... my feet aren't big enough to cover all the pedals.

If you are asking about the car rolling forward... it will do that anyhow.. i've found it only works when facing uphill...

Check and see... you may be out of adjustment or something -could- be snapped... I guess it depends on what you're using the car for really.......

[baccaruda]

my brat has the bracket for it snapped off of the clutch fork. see if you have a cable hanging around there with nothing to do like me
no way am i taking the whole car apart just for that!

[MorganM]

Neat feature but never used it except to show off how many features the GL has Maybe if I lived in Duluth or San Fransicso I'd use it. Mine has been disconnected since my 4WD conversion and havent missed it one bit.

I'd like to remove it all together. Think I might have got some air traped in it with my last brake bleeding fiasco.

[All_talk]

Like BlueSoob said, its designed to only work when the nose of the car is higher by a measured amount (3 degrees I think, the FSM shows a procedure to shim the valve to adjust the angle). I like mine and do use it from time to time, I have it adjusted so that it only catches with the clutch pedal flat on the floor, well passed the engagement point of the clutch so I can choose when to engage it.

Gary

[Scoobywagon]

Not all 80's 4x4's have the hill holder. Neither of mine do, and I see no evidence that they ever did have it. I think it must have either been an option, or something that came with an option package of some sort.

Both are GL wagons, but they aren't loaded. No AC, no PS, no power windows/mirrors, etc. What they DO have is the basic equipment with 4x4.

[Sweet82]

According to the 1983 brochure your 83 had the HH option. It probably broke just like the rest. The only vehicles that didn't have the HH were the DL in the non-4WD. If it was a GL or 4WD DL it had the HH in 1983.

Look under your hood just under the brake booster for some silver brake cylinders, there should be a valve with a spring attached to it. Probably a broken cable attached to the valve also?

Don't bother fixing it!

Glenn
82 SubaruHummer, still hates HH clutch.
01 Forester, ain't got one.

[GeneralDisorder]

The HH was pretty standard one just about everything - even my DL single range 4WD has one. They don't seem to fail a lot out here on the left coast. Mine are both fine, and I have yet to replace one on any Subaru. Must be a rust belt thing.

GD

[DerFahrer]

I like the idea, except when it springs a leak and you lose your brakes when approaching a Stop sign!

[myossfeece]

I also have my hill holder adjusted so it will realease when the the clutch si about a half in from engagement through the pedal. what I like about it is the fact that if you get used to it enough you can hold the clutch and hit the brake pedal just enough to activate it and let off, it will let you roll back slightly at a slow speed or just hit the pedal harder to maintain a complete stop. If your coordinated enough with it it really doesn't seem to be and issue when baja'n, or off roading. at least for me anyway. you can always use nuetral and the brake alone when rolling back wards down hill. I mean if it's down hill you really don't need reverse, just let gravity do the work and if you do need reverse then the hill holder isn't actuated anyway.

On a personal note I need to loosen the hill holder up slightly and loosen up my clutch cable slighty and install a small spring on the clutch fork.

[subaruru]

If I may ask a probably dumb question, how does one bypass, or disconnect altogether, the hill holder? I have an 86 GL with a leaky HH, and the price of a new one is OVER $200, so I'm thinkin' I might oughtta try and live without the sucker! If someone has the answer, please explain the "how-to" of this procedure as if you were trying to help a Martian, cause I'm not big on mechanic's slang to begin with, and explanations that rest on "shorthand" (assumed knowledge) sling me off the wagon at the first turn.

[edrach]

So if the car rolls back with the clutch in, you don't have hill-holder, right?

No you have one, but it's either broke or mis-adjusted (usually the latter).

[edrach]

I like the idea, except when it springs a leak and you lose your brakes when approaching a Stop sign!

If you have a leak here, you should probably know by the fact you're out of fluid the first day! The HH is not a common failure item. My three sons and I have been through a dozend EA81 cars over the years and every one of them had a working HH. Most common failure is improper adjustment because most mechanics don't know how to adjust them and then quote an unreasonable price to fix it.

[edrach]

If I may ask a probably dumb question, how does one bypass, or disconnect altogether, the hill holder? I have an 86 GL with a leaky HH, and the price of a new one is OVER $200, so I'm thinkin' I might oughtta try and live without the sucker! If someone has the answer, please explain the "how-to" of this procedure as if you were trying to help a Martian, cause I'm not big on mechanic's slang to begin with, and explanations that rest on "shorthand" (assumed knowledge) sling me off the wagon at the first turn.

You can disable the HH by adjusting the spring so it never actuates the function. But that won't stop the leak that you might have.

[subaruru]

Thank you, edrach! There must surely be a way to bypass the HH entirely. I think I will call a local Soobie dealer tomorrow and hear if one can purchase a piece of flex brake line tubing in the necessary length to bypass the HH, since I figure that others must have tried this. If not that, then maybe someone can make up a brake line in the desired length, then I use a slightly longer brake line instead of the normal line plus bypass, except that there may be 2 or more such lines (I have no idea how many brakes are engaged when the HH is functioning, but I would expect that at least 2 of them - probably the front brakes - are engaged). I will get back as soon as I know something useful. In the meantime, if someone else has tried this, they are welcome to join in!

Thanks.

[TomRhere]

All you need to do is remove the HH assembly itself, and install a 'Tee' fitting in it's place. You need to re-route the existing brake lines abit by carefully bending them. Then bleed the brakes.
I've done it that way myself.

Thank you, edrach! There must surely be a way to bypass the HH entirely. I think I will call a local Soobie dealer tomorrow and hear if one can purchase a piece of flex brake line tubing in the necessary length to bypass the HH, since I figure that others must have tried this. If not that, then maybe someone can make up a brake line in the desired length, then I use a slightly longer brake line instead of the normal line plus bypass, except that there may be 2 or more such lines (I have no idea how many brakes are engaged when the HH is functioning, but I would expect that at least 2 of them - probably the front brakes - are engaged). I will get back as soon as I know something useful. In the meantime, if someone else has tried this, they are welcome to join in!

Thanks.

[MilesFox]

A lot of times the HH doesn work properly because it is not adjusted properly. You adjust the clutch cable first, and then the HH cable.

Bleeding the brakes can be tricky, but i found that if you depress the clutch while pumping the brake, it does a better job at bleeding the rear brakes

[Gloyale]

Not all 80's 4x4's have the hill holder. Neither of mine do, and I see no evidence that they ever did have it. I think it must have either been an option, or something that came with an option package of some sort.

Both are GL wagons, but they aren't loaded. No AC, no PS, no power windows/mirrors, etc. What they DO have is the basic equipment with 4x4.

After 82+ until into the 90's, If they where manual trans, they WILL have a hill holder

[Gloyale]

If I may ask a probably dumb question, how does one bypass, or disconnect altogether, the hill holder? I have an 86 GL with a leaky HH, and the price of a new one is OVER $200, so I'm thinkin' I might oughtta try and live without the sucker! If someone has the answer, please explain the "how-to" of this procedure as if you were trying to help a Martian, cause I'm not big on mechanic's slang to begin with, and explanations that rest on "shorthand" (assumed knowledge) sling me off the wagon at the first turn.

Install a "T" fitting where the HH is. One line in from Master cylinder, the other 2 are lines out to the Front Left, and Rear Rigth brakes.

*note* newer models such as a 96 outback and others, use only the Front left wheel for hillholder. those models you can simply use a double ended fitting to fit the lines togheter.

[subaruru]

Thanks, everybody! I expect that I can find the "T" gizmo from the local Soobie dealer, I'll give it a try. It's nice to know that others have successfully done this. Thanks again, and I promise to return once I get the bypass in place, to add anything that might be helpful to the next "Hillholder Killer".

[TomRhere]

Thanks, everybody! I expect that I can find the "T" gizmo from the local Soobie dealer, I'll give it a try. It's nice to know that others have successfully done this. Thanks again, and I promise to return once I get the bypass in place, to add anything that might be helpful to the next "Hillholder Killer".

You should be able to get the 'Tee' at your local parts store, or a trip to the local salvage yard. No real need to hit the stealership....