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more EA82T max out information


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#1 WJM

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 03:59 PM

I have come accross information that seems to be very accurate, as I have read this before, and heard it many times...now, hearing it again from people who specialize in SUBARU Performance...i shall make it fact until someone disproves it on the board.....


It appears that the max output for the EA82T is around 250 HP and 275 ft-lbs of TQ with stock internals....beyond that...you will start to consistantly break things....in the engine that is...also, it was communicated that drive axles will go faster (duh) and transmissions start to fail.

After a discussion on the block designs...the EA81's strenght above the EA82 is the head studs, where as the EA82 only has bolts. But with Studs and forged pistons and better rods and a re-done crank....sky is the limit.

So...add to the secret recipie:
Head bolt STUDS
Quality forged pistions & rods
Balance/lighten the crank (or make form new material)

It was also said that when using the right parts, most importantly, the intake manifold (sypder) and a larger throttle body (xt6 or larger)...and the other go fast bits, header, DP, turbo, cams....touch the internals a little....300 is no problem.

:D :D :D :D
:burnout:

#2 JWX

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 04:08 PM

and where did you hear this from?

#3 WJM

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 04:11 PM

Tom Penner....TWE. And from places and articles a while back from NZ and the land of OZ...

#4 mons72

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 04:20 PM

i agree with you wjm, it can be done. i have heard it my self and i've heard that the trans can do 300 hp with out trouble.:)

#5 archemitis

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 04:41 PM

hear say is crap... my cousins 91 mitsubishi eclipse just put down 225 hp to the ground. thats with a bigger turbo, fmic, maxed boost with stock computer, along with the counterbalancers removed, and a 2.0 inline, that is way more effiscient than ours, and you guys are talkin about coming close to that with a 1.8 subaru?
sorry... motor swaps are the only way to get the power you guys are lookin for. ea81t has no aftrmarked support for a reason.
EJ!_! if you havent driven a 2.2 then you have no idea, how slow your ea82t realy is.
a stock crx will smoke a boosted subaru. our cars are slow!

#6 JWX

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 05:08 PM

your negative.................................stop it.......................... thats not nice

#7 archemitis

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 05:44 PM

there is a difference between negativity and realistic :)
everybody wants 400hp, but were all stuck with 100 or less =/

#8 WJM

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 05:55 PM

hear say is crap... my cousins 91 mitsubishi eclipse just put down 225 hp to the ground. thats with a bigger turbo, fmic, maxed boost with stock computer, along with the counterbalancers removed, and a 2.0 inline, that is way more effiscient than ours, and you guys are talkin about coming close to that with a 1.8 subaru?
sorry... motor swaps are the only way to get the power you guys are lookin for. ea81t has no aftrmarked support for a reason.
EJ!_! if you havent driven a 2.2 then you have no idea, how slow your ea82t realy is.
a stock crx will smoke a boosted subaru. our cars are slow!


First off...if he only got 225 with those mods, then somone is smoking crack nd didnt tune it right and it had some problems. Ive seen SERIOUS gains ALONE from just a DP on those cars. ANY inline engine is NOT better. it requires ALOT more work to remain in one peice. Its only got some tiny caps holding the whole bottom end together...SUBARU has AN ENTIRE BLOCK holding the bottom end together. The onyl reason taht 2.0 is more effecient, is due to the 4V per cyl and DOHC. Now...bigger turbo and FMIC with lots of boost on stock ECU? possible...but ONLY 225? thats not much. these counter balancers...are you talking removed fromthe crank? No wonder...the engine was vibrating its self part!

Sure, I could go the easy route and swap in any EJ engine and get some more power...or jsut do WRX/STi swap and be an aftermarket baby and spend spend spend about 9K to get it where I want it. Or, spend $3~$4 thousand on the WHOLE car as it sits now and go as fast as a stock STi.

Ive driven an EJ22 suby...and an EJ25 DOHC (a legacy GT and Outback)...and they are NOT faster than my GL-10.

Ive also driven several WRXs. stock 02 sedan, stock 04 sedan, stock 03 wagon, ECU+Downpipe+catback+monster TD04+slight intake mod+im forgetting something else+STi V7 suspension w/prodrive spings+prodrive P7 wheels on really sticky tires+bigger sway bars+im forgetting something else again, and all were great SUBARUs. Tough, fast, agile, and just a great fun car. I would NOT own one until i have enough money to where I dont even have to worry about a job. I cannot leave it alone and let it stay stock...im gonna "WRC-ize" it...or something. Same with all 3 RX's ive owned. Same with the GL-10. the GL-10 happens to be the lightest of the bunch, the one in the best condition, the most luxurious of them all, and with the increased weight over the rear as compared to an RX...its balanced better. So that will be the car that beats out a stock USDM 04 STi. it CAN AND WILL DO IT.

the EA82T's heads are amoung the BEST flowing 2v per cyl heads ever creating from the factory in the world. The block is CLOSED DECK from the factory, its ROCK SOLID. There with the EJ20G/22G, EJ257 and EJ207.

/rant

#9 mons72

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 05:57 PM

i got 163 on a std ea82t engine

#10 gravelRX

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 06:07 PM

The old adage "Speed cost money, how fast do you want to go?" applies here more than anywhere I've ever seen. "Bang for the buck" also would be good.


I say more power to you and good luck.

Not negative, just realistic.

Jay

Bench racing is just that. Racing with your mouth and not your car. Get some dyno time or get to the track and get a timeslip. Feeling fast because your riding on the bumpstops or close to it is relative. Not an attack, DO IT. show me. i want to see 300hp on the dyno. Hell, Show me 200 and go at the car with a holesaw to lighten it. But, bring the tech, hard solid proof. Until then I am not a believer. My RX feels fast.

#11 TheMeatWagon

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 06:10 PM

hear say is crap... my cousins 91 mitsubishi eclipse just put down 225 hp to the ground. thats with a bigger turbo, fmic, maxed boost with stock computer, along with the counterbalancers removed, and a 2.0 inline, that is way more effiscient than ours, and you guys are talkin about coming close to that with a 1.8 subaru?


Correct me if im wrong but these cars came with 190 stock hp. So you gained 35 horsepower with all that crap u just mentioned? looks like he needs a little followthrough.

#12 WJM

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 06:18 PM

Correct me if im wrong but these cars came with 190 stock hp. So you gained 35 horsepower with all that crap u just mentioned? looks like he needs a little followthrough.


190 crank...133 at the wheels. 321 crank with 225 at the wheels...assuming the dyno conversion is correct. But, im using the AWD conversion factor....0.7

Stock USDM WRX: 227 crank, and ~160 WHP.

#13 archemitis

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 06:29 PM

no, see thats the point, everybody thinks they make more power than they do. dsms are supposed to get to 400 easy. but... they dont.

#14 baccaruda

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 09:23 PM

keep your chin up, will. i think you can do it, and i know that if somehow it can't be made to happen, that you'll be more pleasant about it than the naysayers are now. have you thought about a loop (or 2) for the driveshaft?

#15 subyrally

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 11:04 PM

with a bit of work, the ea82 can clean house, and i think its still faster than a honda stock.

#16 PoorManzImpreza

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 11:09 PM

ok here's my $0.02 and most is probably known..

hypothises:

3 bearing crank...hmm this always seems to be a point of contention, but examining the crank design, material, and dimensions I've come to a couple conclusions

The only reason subaru switched to a 5 bearing crank was because they couldn't reliably run higher bore diameters with the connecting rod journels so close together, thus they needed a longer crank...which in turn requires more support to avoid requiring too much mass between connecting rod journels to maintain strength with the longer length..as any ea82 owner knows these are the widest engines subaru ever made because in order to even have 1.8 liters (and OHC) they needed to lengthen the SAME bore they used in the 1.6 liter blocks..thus also supporting my hypothesis concerning bore sizes and crank lengths with engine width limitations in mind...er if that made sense..

The crank has large main bearing journels and a good oil system to keep it lubricated. Bearing material and construction is typical and generally good and of course upgradable :)

Crank material and method of fabrication...this is very hard to determine not having my one time access to a mass-spectrometer..the crank seems to be caste as the mold lines can be clearly seen but don't take my word for it..this however doesn't mean the crank has not been treated to any number of strengthening techniques..and even if it was just a straight casting then machining, due to its short length and short stroke it will not encounter the same loading conditions and twisting forces of longer cranks with longer strokes...this short stroke is one of the reasons subaru engines last so long when given average treatment...

The pistons believe it or not can hold up under incredible loads if and only if the boosted air is HEAVILY cooled and the fuel requirements are met very acquirately.. subaru engines perform best when they are a nm away from french kissing knock

the connecting rods I'm a bit unsure of 2 be honest..

The heads..hmm bad combustion chamber design...as with all 8 valve subaru and vw boxer engines the comustion chamber is of a bathtub design..this isn't the most efficient combustion chamber especially considering knock resistance..subaru valves generally need to be destroyed by a wayward cylinder, but enough heat will do the job to any engine component as well..the valve seats are good and pretty typical..the valve springs are what will hold one back if one truly desires 300 bhp more than anything else..as that much power will require upping the redline to 8000rpm..well within the capabilities of the bottom end (synthetic, cooled oil is a must)..and thus stiffer springs and retainers will be required to avoid valve float..the rocker arms are of a good design for this application and have no problem handling a beefy cam and following it accurately..the HLA..now this system requires that one have a correctly operating relief valve as this regulates the pressure in the HLA gallery so that below a specified pressure oil is maintained within the HLA gallery to pump them up as the camshaft rotates..tick tick..if the spring in the valve is week the HLAs may not pump up correctly and actually remove the the teeny bit of extra lift you get via mechanical advantage between the rocker the camshaft and the valve stem and tick tick tick, but more likely we need mickey mouse in the oil pump if tick tick is visiting us..now in order to really let these poor 8 valve heads to breath as well as even an average 16 valve ej head (and naturally I'm talking ea82 turbo/mpfi heads) we need them valves to open long and lift high..this is the trick for turbo heads there must be NO overlap between exhaust and intake lobes..or else your stealing the mechanical exhaust pressure that makes boost...so we are left with a hard fact in order to really get these heads moving air we need a higher lift cam in fact a cam with almost insane lift and as much duration as we can have without overlap...this is a very agressive profile but the valve system with stiffer springs is more than capable of following it...the sad part is this requires either the welding of material to the cam...or a new cam..it also might result in a cam that might not fit in the camshaft housing..:lol:

engine management..the stock subaru management on ea82s is just complete crap..especially for you guys in USA..daily driver that's it..

So is 300BHP possible on an ea82T block? Yes. Is Will insane? Yes

high boost high rpm agressive cam, but in lift not duration stiff @$$ valve springs (bigger valves?) forged connecting rods (and maybe pistons??) massive intercooler, and accurate metering of plenty fuel..(ECU, new pump, lines FPR, injectors) and good fat spark with knock feedback

and of course 5 or so junkyard ea82t blocks lying around...:lol:

Dude even after all that I'd still swap a closed deck (or semi closed) turbo ej
in there with ej running gear after all u'll still get the pleasure of soundly spanking any new gen 'more money than sense' impreza 'driver' with a GL-10...but I'll support any USMB member who is this insane about subaru :drunk:

#17 baccaruda

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 12:13 AM

y'know, that's a really good point about the size of the cams being a big stumbling block. i've read enough of the research that the die-hard EA82t freaks have done that I believe in the bottom end as well, but I know that it's going to take a lot of money spent on custom internals, and most people can't see past that.

My 66 Barracuda had a slant six, and I was researching hot rod techniques for inline pushrod 6cyl engines. Everyone who had built them properly - from the ground up as opposed to hotrodding a junkyard block - achieved everything they had forecasted, against as much opposition as will is getting here. of course the engine designs are different, I'm saying that in order to succeed at a project like this, you give yourself the best chance you can, and that means no cutting corners. and sure, you're going to grenade a couple of JY blocks on the way there. if will was just trying to spank STIs with a T4 stapled to a junkyard block, then he would be blowing up an engine every two weeks. that's also fun :D but the point is that he's waiting to do it right, and he's sharing his research with us as he goes. I think it's disrespectful and ungrateful to trash his project just because an EJ20 swap is cheaper, or because someone else blew up a turbowagon by boosting it improperly and therefore it won't work.

after all, everyone knows that a LIFT KIT on a subaru will never work, and why would you try, because they'll never run with jeeps and their weak engines won't let them push bigger tires, right? you'd have to be crazy to be the first to try that.

#18 WJM

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 05:20 AM

So is 300BHP possible on an ea82T block? Yes. Is Will insane? Yes


LOL LOL LOL LOL

#19 WJM

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 07:01 AM

Just had time to sit and read over the whole thing......

Well put out information you guys!

And from everything ive seen and read.....unless everyone who wants to do an EJ swap gets a donor car for free/really cheap...its gonna be around 2k~4k or MORE to do a proper EJ turbo swap....for 2k i can make the EA82T outrun stock WRXs and be reliable. All i need it 200~220 HP...thats easy. Delta cams, spyder+xt6 TB, TWE header+turbo back on TD04, re-vamped intake, big rad and oil cooling. Little things here and there too...like new cap/rotor/coil/plugs, play with the timing, 10w30 mobil synth. oil, go thru and reduce drivetrain loss and other engine drag losses...

im sure someone will point out..."if its that easy, then why have you not done it yet?"

Well...ive hit the brick wall of not having the time to do the proper work i want to with the spyder/xt6 TB setup, TWE is not making headers yet, i dont have a TD04 or $ to get one, i HAD delta cams but sold them and I WILL be ordering another set soon, i DO have a revamped intake, ive done 90% of the little things and i dont have what i want for oil cooling yet....

But when i get thosethings...i'll be way ahead of the game since Ive done al the things that donet require more than $10 to do and I play with the timing, like...all the time. even when i sleep.

#20 archemitis

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 12:01 PM

i wanna see this magical 2k$ shopping list. seriously, whats the whole plan? dont haltechs still run 1k nomatter how you cut it?

that mitsubishi i was talkin about was run at Alamo auto sports, in arlington texas, with a sniffer, and it was runin 20 lbs :slobber:

#21 Warp3

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 01:29 PM

dont haltechs still run 1k nomatter how you cut it?


Why would you need a haltech? I'd imagine something like a MegaSquirt would be quite capable of tackling this task for far less money.

#22 oddcomp

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 01:43 PM

big fat accurate spark... hmmm

edis...
... when i can pull a plug wire off the coil pack and get a 1 - 1.5 inch spark... thats nice and blue... i consider that a fat spark...
but then again i freely admit i am insane... :)

#23 WJM

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 02:50 PM

i wanna see this magical 2k$ shopping list. seriously, whats the whole plan? dont haltechs still run 1k nomatter how you cut it?

that mitsubishi i was talkin about was run at Alamo auto sports, in arlington texas, with a sniffer, and it was runin 20 lbs :slobber:


why would I go and buy an ECU thats thousands of $, when i can build my own for less than $200 and control spark as well??? Plus its FUNNY tunable, even on the run and you can make maps for any condition you want...etc etc...

#24 MorganM

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 03:17 PM

So get $2,000 dollars financed, stop talking about it, and do it :)

I EASILY had $1600 financed to rebuild my EA82 engine from Wells Fargo. I was only 19 at the time with NO credit and a full time student. Paid it off in less than 90 days and I paid no interest on the deal.

Hypothesizing about it on here doesnt make it happen. Money and Work do :drunk:

Please dont take this the wrong way. I'd love to see a 250 HP 270 FT/LB EA82 turbo. Honestly you are one of the few who actually seems like you'll follow through. Just trying to modivate you !_!

#25 WJM

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 03:27 PM

I would....but I DID take out 2000 a while back to do up the RX...but i ended up spending only 1200 on it...as the rest went to other things....then I paid that off in short order.

Then...took out 3k...purchased another RX, paid off some things...and had the $ to buy and fix that DL wagon I had, and then fix the turbo wagon's engine and stock up on suby parts. Now im paying that off...so its not like I can jsut go get another loan now.




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