zzg8q8 Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Hello all. I am currently a Volvo XC70 owner but not happy. I bought it used at a pretty good price under the impression that Volvos last forever (what with their 300k mile club). I have experienced numerous issues since I bought the car and I am worried that the transmission will not last much longer. I am considering getting out now before I fork over big bucks for the new gearbox. Question: Does anyone have any suggestions on what Subaru Outback years / powertrain combos are the least likely to have issues? I like manuals and would prefer the 4 cylinder w/ 5 spd. Does anyone know how the new '05s are doing? From a quick search I see the 2.5l has head gasket problems - any other ubiquitous problems? Thanks - hopefully I will be a Subaru convert shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsmiths Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I see the 2.5l has head gasket problems - any other ubiquitous problems? Thanks - hopefully I will be a Subaru convert shortly. Pretty much fixed after 2000 (our 2000 Legacy has 160,000 and the only repair we've had is a bad wheel bearing, no HG issue at all). I favor the automatics, because I find that they are better in snow (yah, I know I'm gonna get flamed for THAT one), also 'cause I'm getting lazier the closer I get to geezerhood. Go test drive a 2005 and try both the manual and the sport shift auto, you may be surprised. I test drove a 2005 Outback, and a Baja, and loved them both, but I steadfastly refuse to buy a new car. I think you can't go wrong on any new 'Roo, and would be comfortable buying a clean used 2.5, 2000 or newer (whiich is what I would do, also because I like the '00-'04 styling better than the '05). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 96 could still be had with the 2.2. best engine subaru ever made. the head gasket issue wasn't really fixed .. it just changed a little. For the 2000+, subaru has issued some special stopleak stuff to deal with external leakages. Perhaps by the 2005 model, that has been dealt with. Don't know anyone that has had their 2005 in the shop yet. Volvos will go 300k.. that thing you have isn't a volvo, its a ford My volvo has 245k on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegacy96 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 I have a 96 2.5L(which was new that year and only available in Auto). 9 years old, runs awesomely. Only major repair: left cam seal replacement last month. ~ $400 Only minor repairs: Crank case sensor and 1 CEL sensor ~ $150 If I had the money Id get a newer Legacy but since mine is running great, I really have no need. And Im not sure if Im ready to part with it. For the record, my Legacy kicks rump roast in the snow. I really impressed my friends and proved how great Subarus are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzg8q8 Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 Thanks for the input so far. You're right about the Ford vs. Volvo issue. There's been some speculation on the Volvo forum about the correlation between the Ford acquisition and the quality of the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason1976 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Both of our '96 wagons have been great from the day we bought them. You can check my signature for the mileage. The Impreza is a 5-speed 2.2 while the Legacy is automatic 2.2. Both handle equally impressive in the snow. We have had absolutley ZERO engine troubles. I'm beginning to think we are just lucky, as my Ford is still alive as well...however, I doubt the Subes have anything to do with luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniberp Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Thanks for the input so far. You're right about the Ford vs. Volvo issue. There's been some speculation on the Volvo forum about the correlation between the Ford acquisition and the quality of the product. I'm a committed Volvo nut who just got a '99 Forester L (N/A). Having been through all the series of Volvos, I gave up on all the FWD Volvos and returned to the original pushrod models from my youth. The Subaru is for my girl, who is crazy about it, and I'm pretty sure I take complete care of it, without devoting a year's coursework to learning it. I looked at the new ones, but the drive-by-wire throttle just didn't do it for me in any sense. The brand news ones seem to have inserted another level of abstraction into working with the car. I'm hoping the SOHC, EFI, standard AWD, rear drum setup will prove reliable. It certainly performs more than adequately. I did the first repair, the right driveaxle and balljoint, and it went quite easily and inexpensively. My smart eccentric uncle had a early 70's Sub when it was new, and drove it relentlessly and endlessly. I was very impressed, but only now have actually tried one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Hello all. I am currently a Volvo XC70 owner but not happy. I bought it used at a pretty good price under the impression that Volvos last forever (what with their 300k mile club). I have experienced numerous issues since I bought the car and I am worried that the transmission will not last much longer. I am considering getting out now before I fork over big bucks for the new gearbox. Question: Does anyone have any suggestions on what Subaru Outback years / powertrain combos are the least likely to have issues? I like manuals and would prefer the 4 cylinder w/ 5 spd. Does anyone know how the new '05s are doing? From a quick search I see the 2.5l has head gasket problems - any other ubiquitous problems? Thanks - hopefully I will be a Subaru convert shortly. Find a 96 5spd and you will get 500k easy out of the 2.2 5spd combo. The 2.5 is not as bad as you see here, worst case you have to spend $1200 for HG change out, which is a normal service for a volvo!! I like the 96-99 outback best then the new 05 up are awsome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slats Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Could not agree more... proud owner of 2001 Legacy GT wagon with auto. Pretty much fixed after 2000 (our 2000 Legacy has 160,000 and the only repair we've had is a bad wheel bearing, no HG issue at all). I favor the automatics, because I find that they are better in snow (yah, I know I'm gonna get flamed for THAT one), also 'cause I'm getting lazier the closer I get to geezerhood. Go test drive a 2005 and try both the manual and the sport shift auto, you may be surprised. I test drove a 2005 Outback, and a Baja, and loved them both, but I steadfastly refuse to buy a new car. I think you can't go wrong on any new 'Roo, and would be comfortable buying a clean used 2.5, 2000 or newer (whiich is what I would do, also because I like the '00-'04 styling better than the '05). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobaroo Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Volvos will go 300k.. that thing you have isn't a volvo, its a ford My volvo has 245k on it I'm with you on that. The last "good" year for Volvo was around '96. (the last year that you could get a "red brick" 4 cyl.) The bean counters at Ford have now turned Volvos into cheap, plastic, electronic dispose-a-cars. Stick with Toyota, Subaru or Honda. They give you the most for the least $$. I think it's safe to say that head gaskets are no longer an issue with Subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 ..also because I like the '00-'04 styling better than the '05). Do you really? I love the new 05 styling. I am not super fond of the 00-04, I think the 96-99 was the best until the new 05. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 The HG issue may be fixed but... look at all the new threads popping up about 04 and even 05s...ouch. Just like a volvo isn't a volvo any more a subaru isn't a subaru anymore--it's a POS GM product. Sure didn't take them long to piss in the gene pool. EJ22 FOREVER. Rweddy- I always love it when you tell people..."there good engines just figure in the $1200 for HG replacement" Get a hold of yourself...that's just an absurd rationale...especially when answering this question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Had 200k miles on my Legacy L wagon. I drove it HARD while I had it. Put 100 miles a day on it, mostly on the freeways doing 80+mph. Only things I repaired while I had it were alternator, one wheel bearing, one fuel injector, and few sets of junkyard tires. It was still a strong motor, used minimal oil, used no coolant, plenty of power and I'd say it was one solid Subaru. I'd definatly consider it one of the best built as far as reliability goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Rweddy- I always love it when you tell people..."there good engines just figure in the $1200 for HG replacement" Get a hold of yourself...that's just an absurd rationale...especially when answering this question. I hate to break this to you but not every 2.5 blow its HG. I know many 96-99 2.5 that have over 200k with no issues at all. The $1200 is just insurance money if you have an issue then you have the $$ if not then you are ok. Plus after you fix it you are good for another 200k. And I think since this is the only real major issue with Subaru’s that this a minor issue. What other manufactures can you get an AWD wagon from? Volvo,Audi,VW,... The maintance on these cars are big $$$. A tune up on an Audi or Volvo is in the 1000 range. With Subaru you get a car can go 200k easy and the only major issue is a $1200 HG fix I see this as a non-issue or not that big of an issue consider the rest of the vehicle is rock solid. Every manufactures has issues with their vehicles. Toyota has had and is continuing to have HG issues with their v6s. Volvo has issue with their AWD diffs blowing up, Audi has major electrical issues, …… I could go on all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 are the 5 speed Legacy wagons that were in the early 90s. Before they did the phase 2 2.2s. It seems that they really had the bugs worked out with these cars. I have a 93 Legacy wagon in the yard now and if it had been around when I was looking for my Forester (they never are when you want one) I would be driving that now. The early 90s Legacy costs less than I put in my Forester for maintence the first year I bought it, and will probably be running when the Forester is dead. If you can't find one with little rust this coud be a problem, but I love those cars. If you break a cam belt so what? They are non interference and you just put one on. Parts are cheap and they are a DIY car. One problem over here is that you can't find a Legacy in a junkyard. The suckers are all on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Rweddy- You make me laugh. 1200 may not be a big deal to you as for the rest of us...? My point is why even bother with that POS when you can buy a 2.2 and get 200k with only changing the oil? Huh? Didn't think so. Hell for 1200 I can buy a first gen legacy and prolly get ANOTHER 200k out of it. Your reasoning is baseless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzg8q8 Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Thanks all for taking time to respond. I'll check out the market and see what we come up with. One last question: Reading the literature, I see the yr2005 5 speed has a different AWD system than the automatic (viscous vs. clutch plate), any comments on the difference in handling or longevity? My Volvo has viscous and it forces me to have the exact same size tire on all 4 corners (i.e. if I need to replace a tire mid-life, I have to shave it to match diametrically the other 3) or I will supposedly fry the viscous coupling as it attempts to match wheel speed. Anyone experience this first hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Rweddy- You make me laugh. 1200 may not be a big deal to you as for the rest of us...? My point is why even bother with that POS when you can buy a 2.2 and get 200k with only changing the oil? Huh? Didn't think so. Hell for 1200 I can buy a first gen legacy and prolly get ANOTHER 200k out of it. Your reasoning is baseless. I am not saying $1200 is a drop in the bucket but like I stated before offer $1200 off what the car cost then you have insurance, if it has an issue you are ok, if not you have $1200 in the bank. How many Subaru’s have you owned? I have heard this argument with every generation of Subaru since the begining. In 85 when Subaru went to timing belts from chains, everyone said they new models were crap. When the legacy came out everyone said it was crap because if did not have dual range, or a selectable 4wd system. I could go on forever on this topic. Every iteration of Subaru has had their own issues and strong suites. Even the glorious 90-94 Subaru Legacy because of the rip straps on the seat belts, they are death traps in wrecks. There will always be doom and gloom people who say older is always better. In a few years if you still have a Subaru you will be talking about how great the the 98's or 01's or what ever were and how you hate the new 2011 models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballitch Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 lol true that. old school is the S**T!!!!!! they are boxes on wheels but god darnit they last forever, and anyone with a brain stem and can read can fix the darn things. ~Josh~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobaroo Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Japaneese cars don't have a lock and key on reliability. Lots of ranchers around here will argue that their 90's something Chevy pickups with a 350 TBI injected V8 and a 5 speed tranny is the most reliable thing going. I hardly see one of these trucks that doesn't have 300,000 to 400,000 miles on them (and they've been WORKED); seats worn down to the bare wire frames, 5th wheel hitches and beds dented and beaten beyond recognition but little to no rust. I don't care what "Consumer Reports" says, those early to mid 90's Chevy trucks are friggin' tough as nails. Chevy went down the crapper in the late 90's, though when they changed engine platforms. For the DIY'er, an older Subaru will always be better. Parts are still plenty easy to scrounge and anyone with a functioning brain can do a ghetto engine rebuild in a weekend. There's a conspiracy (IMO) amongst ALL car manufacturers to increase the electronic complexity of cars and to cut off the supply of specialized electronic parts after about 10 years in order to force the previous generation of vehicles into obsolescence. Driving ancient, old iron with huge aftermarket support is the only way to avoid this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Japaneese cars don't have a lock and key on reliability. Lots of ranchers around here will argue that their 90's something Chevy pickups with a 350 TBI injected V8 and a 5 speed tranny is the most reliable thing going. I hardly see one of these trucks that doesn't have 300,000 to 400,000 miles on them (and they've been WORKED); seats worn down to the bare wire frames, 5th wheel hitches and beds dented and beaten beyond recognition but little to no rust. I don't care what "Consumer Reports" says, those early to mid 90's Chevy trucks are friggin' tough as nails. Chevy went down the crapper in the late 90's, though when they changed engine platforms. And how many of these have original engines? Trannys? None. I have worked on several ranches growing up here in Colorado and yes we had chevy/ford/dodge trucks with 300,000 miles but none of these were ever original. A 350 is good for about 100-150 before it needs a rebuild. The reason these ranchers keep the trucks is you can get a motor for 1k rebuilt and get another 100k out of it. These trucks are not reliable but parts are cheap so you can keep them running for a long time if you can fix them yourself. I have several friends in the Auto industry and they will tell you the new engines in Chevy are the best they have ever had but once again every points to the old days euphorically and how great these trucks were. When in truth the early TBI systems had major electrical issues, the rings go at 100k, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrickjd9 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I'm with you on that. The last "good" year for Volvo was around '96. (the last year that you could get a "red brick" 4 cyl.) The bean counters at Ford have now turned Volvos into cheap, plastic, electronic dispose-a-cars. The FWD Volvo problems predate the Ford purchase. We had a 96 850 Wagon, and sold it for $2K at 128,000 miles because it needed at least $2500 worth of work-including a repeat torn weld in the driver's doorframe. Hard to get a good price when the driver's door makes a sound out of a horror movie when opening:banghead:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Scoobaroo, there is some hope left: Mercedes has decided to can it's too-smart brake-by-wire system. Too many E-Class and SL's have experienced TOTAL brake failure, and they recalled tens of thousands of the things. The new S-Class was supposed to use this system, but someone clever decided to leave it in the bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT95 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I'll have to agree with rweddy that part of the appeal and popularity of the older gen Chevy trucks is that 1) Parts for them are dirt cheap compared to any Japanese car, and 2) they are easy as all getout to work on. Now, I've run several smallblock Chevys beyond 150K with no major problems at all, so I'll have to disagree on their short life. Granted, doing a lot of towing might very easily lessen their life. My 93 Caprice got just under 200K before I traded it in. (Had a ton more oomph than my Subie and got the exact same highway gas mileage too.) Still, let's assume Even if you did only get 150K out of that bowtie engine, for $1500 you can drop in a new crate motor and have a 3 yr, 30,000 mile warranty. Not a bad deal. I'm curious to see how the Japanese big trucks are going to hold up to heavy work in the long run--if any farm bos actually buy any. Toyota trucks look like crap, but that big Nissan and Honda's new pickup look interesting. I'm glad there is now that much competition in the big truck market, although I'll probably never want one. I can't wait to see the 2010 full size Subaru pickup with its flat 8! As far as the 2.5 and calculating $1200 for the HG fix, maybe look for one that has the blown head gasket and buy it for an appropriately cheap price and get that engine fixed or replaced. That might be a decent deal with some security. Personally, I think your best bet would be to find an older Legacy wagon--95 or 96--and buy one with low miles then drop some extra $$$ into getting it all bling-bling for yourself. You still have a nice looking car (put the freakin' Outbook hood on the Legacy if you want that rugged look) and you get the security of the fantastic 2.2 engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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