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EA82 cams....carbed vs SPFI


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25 replies to this topic

#1 Numbchux

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 05:04 PM

I tried searching, but only got info on cam seals, and sprockets...

anyway, one of the tabs that the valve cover bolts into broke off a couple months ago, I finally got around to wapping the cam tower off my parts car...now the thing runs like crap! I fear the '85 carbed EA82 might have a different one than my '88 SPFI.

Please tell me I missed the timing belt by a tooth! but it runs, and I just tried re-doing the passenger side (I did the drivers side twice while I did it, so I'm pretty sure about it), and it didn't help.

it feels like it's only running on a cylindar or 2 (not enough horsepower, divided by 2...)

EDIT: for anyone searching for this info. I figured out the problem, a rocker had fallen off....the cams turned out to be the same (or at least similar enough to not make a difference)

#2 Syonyk

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 05:23 PM

How did you set the timing? With the center of 3 ||| marks on the flywheel lined up with the arrow, one index mark on the cam sprocket should be pointing straight up, and the other should be pointing straight down.

-=Russ=-

#3 Numbchux

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 05:38 PM

How did you set the timing? With the center of 3 ||| marks on the flywheel lined up with the arrow, one index mark on the cam sprocket should be pointing straight up, and the other should be pointing straight down.

-=Russ=-


yep...unfortunately, I've done timing belts a few times, I'm pretty sure I got it right

#4 Snowman

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 10:05 PM

I do believe that they ran different cams. It also depends on year. I've been told that Subaru switched cam profiles in 87 or 88.

#5 Numbchux

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 01:01 PM

I do believe that they ran different cams. It also depends on year. I've been told that Subaru switched cam profiles in 87 or 88.


just wonderful....

how hard is it to swap the cams? can I do it on the car? or do i need to take the cam tower off with it?

#6 grossgary

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 01:11 PM

how hard is it to swap the cams? can I do it on the car? or do i need to take the cam tower off with it?


it's not bad at all. the cam tower does need to come off. remove cam carrier, install new cam and reinstall cam carrier. annoying parts are removing all the old gasket and installing the drivers side cam carrier. have to hang the cam followers ("rocker arms") from the HLA's with some thick grease.

be sure to order new cam carrier reinforced o-rings if you have to go in that far. only $2.13 from subaru and well worth it to have new ones in place.

#7 grossgary

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 01:12 PM

you said you swapped cam carrier before because of a broke bolt....so you're familiar with the process right?

i would pull the valve cover and make sure one of the cam followers (rocker arms) didn't fall off or is sitting crooked.

by the way - passengers side is much easier than drivers side.

#8 Numbchux

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 04:40 PM

you said you swapped cam carrier before because of a broke bolt....so you're familiar with the process right?


Well....I had a look at how it all went together when i pulled the tower off the '85s block (which is out of the car), so I had an idea of how it all went together, but pretty much took it apart, put the new one up there, and put it back together....

I'm pretty sure that the rocker's are all seated correctly, it took me quite awhile to get it on there (I jacked that side of the car way up in the air :brow: ), but I'm pretty sure that worked...

sounds like you guys aren't sure whether the cams are interchangeable? it feels like my dad's 300ZX did when the coil wire was shorting out...but there's no logical reason why the ignition system would stop working now. I didn't touch the disty, and the cap/rotor/plugs/wires/coil are all new within the last couple months!

Anyone know for sure?! I'm sure there's got to be someone out there that knows....with all this 'gen2' 'gen3' heads, etc. Someone's got to know! I don't have easy access to garage space, so if I have to do this, I want to know it's right! I can try resetting the timing belts in my driveway with mittens on....EASY!

#9 grossgary

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 04:44 PM

i asked awhile back if turbo and non-turbo cams were different and don't recall getting a solid answer either. might be tricky. try calling the dealer and seeing if it's a different part number? or looking it up on one of hte online OEM suppliers and seeing if the part numbers differ?

#10 Meeky Moose

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 12:33 AM

well i do know the 85' 86' cams are different from the 87'+ cams, turbo cams that is..
and i also know carbed cams are completely different than any turbo cam..

i would imagine the 85's cams are different than your 88's cams.. so if you've already done the passenger side, why not do the drivers side and have it fixed? a little hard cause of the space issue, but you could always unhook the radiator hoses, and unbolt teh motor moutns and jack it up about 6 inches.. might help a little..

#11 NorthWet

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 01:20 AM

Even if the cams are different, they are NOT different enough to make the car run significantly different.

Before I dug into the cams, I would check all of the usual suspects: Rockers, cam timing (especially that 180 degrees between L/R side thing...), ignition timing, and spark plug wires. Check the spark plug wires even if they are aonly a couple of months old; you maybe/probably moved/removed them to remove the cam carrier, and they might have gotten swapped around or damaged just from being moved.

#12 Numbchux

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 10:30 AM

Even if the cams are different, they are NOT different enough to make the car run significantly different.

Before I dug into the cams, I would check all of the usual suspects: Rockers, cam timing (especially that 180 degrees between L/R side thing...), ignition timing, and spark plug wires. Check the spark plug wires even if they are aonly a couple of months old; you maybe/probably moved/removed them to remove the cam carrier, and they might have gotten swapped around or damaged just from being moved.


I didn't touch the plug wires....but I will check them again.

I just redid the cam timing yesterday...nothing

The only other thing, is while I had it all apart, I removed the timing belt covers, so I no longer have the little mark, but I've got it lined up with the valve cover seam....so that should be right

The problem with swapping the drivers side cam, is it's at my parents place...3hr drive. So I've got to try to make do with what I've got...


I guess I'll try moving the cam timing one tooth each way, and see how that effects it...

#13 All_talk

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:01 AM

Its my understanding that all the cam profiles are different between the Turbo/SPFI/Carb engines along with some year changes like the early/late turbo cams. But, like NorthWet said, the differences are small and would not have a drastic effect on performance.

I recently bought a ’90 Loyal with one cam timed a tooth off and it ran quite well and I didn’t notice a huge difference once it was timed correctly.

You replaced the drivers side cam case? If so you would have had to restab the distributor… double check the ignition timing.

And along the line of what NorthWet said... assume nothing, check everything!

Gary
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#14 Subaru Jim Maple Ridge

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:18 AM

The SPFI cams have the best lift, but the difference is not enough to make the car run poorly. You either missed by a notch, or a cam follower is out of place.

#15 Numbchux

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:25 AM

You replaced the drivers side cam case? If so you would have had to restab the distributor… double check the ignition timing.

And along the line of what NorthWet said... assume nothing, check everything!


Maybe I said it wrong, I DID replace the passenger side one...

I probably will end up checking everything, but since I don't have easy access to a garage, I was going to see how likely it was that the cam was just wrong. It looks like my problem is somewhere else! Thanks!

one other thing, my girlfriend followed me while I limped it home that night, she said it occasionally puffed out a big puff of blue smoke....that help anyone?

OK, I'm off to try the timing belts again! yay

#16 grossgary

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:42 AM

i recall a guy pulling his cam towers for some reason and the car running terribly, but he had mad lifter noise. turned out a piece of sealant got caught in the oil supply line at the bottom corner of the cam carrier where it meets the head. it got sucked into the port and restricted oil flow. anaerobic sealant avoids that issue. he even posted pictures of it that i think are still on the Yahoo! XT6 group.... you're not having lifter noise though right?

#17 grossgary

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:52 AM

here's a picture of the piece of sealant caught in the cam housing....

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#18 Numbchux

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 03:55 PM

you're not having lifter noise though right?


Nope...just no power.

#19 D-Cal

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 04:44 PM

Do the cams have the same centerline specs? From my other make of cars I know some cams were keyed differently, and to use them in other applications you either had to get adjustable cam sprockets or offset cam keys. eg. Using the stock sprocket with the new cam would result in 4 degrees retard, so you advance it the same 4 to have it perform normally, otherwise the car would be a dog on the bottom end.

Just throwing out a thought.

#20 Numbchux

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 01:26 AM

Still haven't had enough time to try resetting the belts....but I did have one momentary idea, so I started it up, and tried pulling individual plug wires, to see if it stopped running as well....#1 had no effect, the rest had an obvious effect....so whatever's off, it's (presumably) closing the intake valve too late....what could this mean

any help would be much appreciated, as I need to drive this car home (3+ hours @ 75mph) and I don't have much time to work on it, so I need the repair to work.

also...the cylindars are:

2 - 4
1 - 3
rad

right?

#21 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 01:49 AM

also...the cylindars are:

2 - 4
1 - 3
rad

right?


D'oh! That could cause a problem, it should be:

3 - 4
1 - 2
rad

firing order is 1, 3, 2, 4. So, one side, front to back, then the other side front to back.

#22 kingbobdole

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 05:18 AM

DOH! ^
that may be it... but also pulling the valve cover is easy, you might do that and check to see if any of the rockers fell off... Let the car sit a while before you start and I usually have no oil drop issue... Check that out, just in case

#23 john in KY

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 06:32 AM

This is a real long shot but a few years ago I worked on my mother's-in-law 85 wagon and when finished #1 cylinder was dead and the engine ran like crap. Eventually discovered a small vacuum line in the intake manifold runner that fed the #1 cylinder was cracked.

#24 mdjdc

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 09:10 AM

I f the #1 cylinder is dead then you have a rocker that has fallen off. Before you do anything else pull the cover and check the rockers. I bought a car from a guy that had one dead cylinder and that was the problem. Power was nearly zip and I had to drive 8 hours to get the car home. By the time I got it home the head was destroyed due to the rocker beating up against the lifter before it finally fell off and ended up in the oil pan.

Don't run it anymore. Just take the time and check the rockers. If one fell off you will find it in the oil drain runner at the bottom of the engine. Use a magne t to retrieve it.

Good Luck

#25 Numbchux

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 11:29 AM

D'oh! That could cause a problem, it should be:

3 - 4
1 - 2
rad

firing order is 1, 3, 2, 4. So, one side, front to back, then the other side front to back.


again...unfortunately, my knowledge of what the cylindar numbers just complicate my description (although I still had #1 right....and the firing order)

I do realize that the valve cover is easy to pull off...unfortunately it's been snowing for about a day straight, and I don't have a garage. But if that seems to be the general concensus....I'll give it a try.

I think I'll also put the flywheel on TDC, and pop the disty cap off....maybe that will reveal something.




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