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I need this CAR RUNNING!!!


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21 replies to this topic

#1 SubySwack

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 03:08 PM

Hey all. I used to be TarmacSuby until I had to reset my password everytime I wanted to log in. So if you don't hear from me again for a while you know what happened... again...

Anyway, I finally have my car rebuilt after redoing the timing belts. '85 Sube GL Turbo (EA82T Block) I have tried to start it many times and I have gone through the engine many times. It is getting spark, fuel, and air but it still won't start up and run. It turns over nice and smooth but it never fires or even tries. The issue is I have no clue where to go next. We even took the ignition coil off a running suby (my friends car that was helping me.. lol) and tried to start the car with it and still nothing. Never fired, never tried. The car we took the coil off of to test on mine made the exact same sound when we turned it over and it was missing the coil. (Replace the coil??)Keep in mind the car has been sitting for 2 years with no movement and same gas in the tank. Any suggestions as to what to check or what you may even know it is, I would love to know.

Another problem is I am 17 and my mother is about to sell the only other vehicle I am allowed to drive so she can have more money for her car. So, to put it simply, I REALLY need this car to run and I need it soon. Being addicted to subaru's, you know the feeling. I don't want the thought of buying another car or even buying a new engine to put in theis current one. I don't have the money for either. Once the car runs it will basically be my income. Thanks for any help...

#2 Spiffy

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 03:28 PM

did you try pouring some fresh fuel down its throat? gas can go bad in 6 months... 2 year old gas is going to be hell on the carb... not that it's really that tough to take it apart and clean sticky yellow varnish out of it...

pour some fresh gas down the carb and see if it fires on that...

and of course recheck all the timing if that doesn't work...

--Spiffy

#3 SubySwack

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 03:31 PM

I forgot to mention that it is a FI car but we still tried that too... My next test is to siphon out the old fuel and put new in. Then keep turning the key till something happens.... Anything else it may be?? I need help.

#4 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 05:11 PM

You said you replaced the timing belts? Did you try starting it before doing that?

When you did them, did you crank the engine over once inbetween each belt, so the cams are 180* from each other?

#5 SubySwack

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 06:21 PM

You said you replaced the timing belts? Did you try starting it before doing that?

When you did them, did you crank the engine over once inbetween each belt, so the cams are 180* from each other?


Yes. I did that. I found the procedure in the USRM to do the timing and then followed it exactly. I just realized we had tried starting it before we did the timing belts and it never started then either. It turned over but it wasn't very smooth. Everything was out of order. Now it turns smoothly but it just doesn't fire up. :confused:

#6 SubySwack

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 06:29 PM

I can take any other suggestions as to why it may not start but I just found out my timing from the dist cap may be way off. <moron>(courtesy of me)</moron> I'm not anywhere near the car at the moment to see if I am right or not, but I am hoping that is all that is preventing me from driving it back home. If the timing is fine, what else could it be?

#7 Cougar

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 10:54 AM

I don't know if you removed the distributor or not but if you did then it may be 180 degrees out. To check that you can make sure that number 1 cylinder is at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke and then look to see how the rotor is pointed in relation to the plug wires. It should be pointing to to #1.

Since you are not getting any hint of firing it sounds like there is a timing issue of some sort since you have spark. If spaying some starter fluid into the intake doesn't help get any life from the engine then you have to have something wrong with the T belts or the disty timing. Check your compression also. If that it is low then the T belts are most likely out of correct time. One common mistake that is done when changing the T belts is not turning the engine crank 360 degrees before placing the second belt on.

#8 Sonicfrog

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 11:13 AM

I'ld guess the disty is off also, but also make sure you're giving the engine enough gas. Both times I had to re-time the engine (new engine replaced last year, head gasket this year) I had a heck of a time getting the disty in the right place. This last time (head gasket) the car wouldn't start after I put the engine back together. So I adjusted and readjusted the disty this way and that, and I still couldn't get the engine to fire. Turns out I probably had the timiing correct in the first place, and was jut not giving the engine enough gas for that first fire.

#9 SubySwack

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 12:45 PM

I turned the crank 360 before putting the second belt on. We checked last time I worked on the car to see if the distributor was on cylinder 1 and it was 180 degrees off. (only the cap was removed, not the whole distributor assembly) Do I just rearrange the plug wires so it matches or is there a longer procedure? I am sure we are fiving it plenty of gas. If anything we are either getting very close to if not flooding it. (which isn't good anyway...) I am going to try to get back out there this week to work on it and hopefully bring it back home with me this time. The cap being wrong is the last thing I can think of that would keep it from firing. We checked spark to all 4 cylnders, replaced a coil off a running car with the one on my car and it still didn't fire, and checked the alignment of the cams and crank, (running the car without timing covers, street driving only.) The cap is the last thing I can test and if that doesn't get it to fire I don't know what to do.

How hard was your car to start the first time you tried to fire it?

#10 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 06:54 PM

Here are some things to check:

Distributor position:
-take off the passenger side TBelt cover (if it isn't already) and crank the engine by hand so that the timing mark on the cam points North-West (45* Left of straight up). At this point, the rotor should point to the #1 plug on the cap. If it doesn't, then the disty is 180* out.

Firing order
1, 3, 2, 4, CCW around the cap, #1 is closest to the brake booster/hill holder spring (should also be marked)

#11 ausubaru92

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 07:47 PM

I had a very similar problem,.. have you got blue spark, yellow spark is not good.

So fuel down the throttle body didnt work???? it did for me.

In the end,.. i unplugged the MAF, and it started (it ran rough but that was cos it couldnt calculate air flow)
I plugged it back in and all was good.
But i had spark, cos it would fire with fuel poured down its neck.

Tripple check your timing and spark leads

#12 Bill90Loyale

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 08:05 PM

I'm with Spiffy. Have you siphoned that fuel yet? I had a nightmare like this with a Volvo P1800 once (which sat over a Minnesota winter) and it turned out that I was trying to start it on water (which had condensed in the tank and, I think, made it into the tank from a faulty drain hole in the gas cap area). If timing is good, spark is good, wires are set up correctly, then focus again on the potential for water in the tank.

P.S. An alternative to siphoning is to unplug the fuel line on the engine side of the fuel filter and turning the car over to pump fuel into a container. Be cautious (if it ain't water coming out, then it's gasoline). If you end up trying to dump fuel down the throttle body again, use starter fluid, not gasoline.

P.S.S. Dead Mass Air Flow meter is good advice too...
Keep the faith. You'll find the problem.

#13 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 09:06 PM

P.S. An alternative to siphoning is to unplug the fuel line on the engine side of the fuel filter and turning the car over to pump fuel into a container. Be cautious (if it ain't water coming out, then it's gasoline). If you end up trying to dump fuel down the throttle body again, use starter fluid, not gasoline.


I've had good luck doing this, but instead connecting the green test connectors, turning the key to On, and letting the gas pulse out.

#14 JTMCO

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 09:16 PM

Based on what you've written, it sounds more like an ignition problem.

Have you tried using Starter Fluid (ether)? If you are getting ANY spark, that stuff will ignite. BE CAREFUL

Jim

#15 SubySwack

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 12:56 AM

Keep the faith. You'll find the problem.

I had faith until I just thought of another option that I could have screwed up... When you set the timing you put the crankshaft at tdc. Then you place the driver side cam to tdc also. My thought is, when you set the crank at tdc, it has to be on the compression stroke for cylinder 1 doesn't it? I am pretty much positive about that... I guess that means I take apart my engine again. I don't have a shop to do that in so this is really going to get interesting. These past 2 weeks have been hell and now I discover I get to take apart my engine for the 2nd time. Oh I'm just SO looking forward to it... lol </sarcasm>

#16 Bill90Loyale

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 04:36 AM

I've had good luck doing this, but instead connecting the green test connectors, turning the key to On, and letting the gas pulse out.

Hooziewhatsit is right. Use this method. Cranking the starter for more than about 15 seconds can overheat it and damage the starter.

#17 SubySwack

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 01:04 PM

Hooziewhatsit is right. Use this method. Cranking the starter for more than about 15 seconds can overheat it and damage the starter.


That is something I noticed last night. I checked for the green plugs and they were under the steering column like I thought for that model. The weird thing is they are already plugged in. Does it come like that from the factory? My friend's Soob had the connectors plugged in also but on his car they are in the engine compartment next to the firewall. The plugs on my car are definitely not the easiest to get to since they are stuffed under the dash behind some paneling. I don't think it would but I will ask anyway since I can't think of anything else, would those plugs prevent it from starting if it has been sitting for 2 years? We tried to start the car last night after I fixed the firing order on the cap and it fired in 2 cylinders and then stopped. It wouldn't fire in any cylinders after that but it turned over. Bad gas?? Something to try since I really don't have the time or money or the shop for that matter to tear apart the engine again..

By the way, ignore my post last night... Wasn't thinking straight. lol

#18 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 02:08 PM

That is something I noticed last night. I checked for the green plugs and they were under the steering column like I thought for that model. The weird thing is they are already plugged in. Does it come like that from the factory?


For normal operation, they should not be plugged in. I believe, having them plugged in during normal driving essentially tells the ECU to keep doing it's diagnostic on all it's sensors.

By the way, ignore my post last night... Wasn't thinking straight. lol


Which one? the one about finding TDC of the crank and cams? I'm actually not exactly sure where the timing marks put the crank & cam, I just know it doesn't work to use anything but the 3 dash marks on the flywheel (as opposed to the actual TDC degree marks)

#19 SubySwack

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 06:58 PM

For normal operation, they should not be plugged in. I believe, having them plugged in during normal driving essentially tells the ECU to keep doing it's diagnostic on all it's sensors.


When I redid the timing belts so they were aligned correctly I lined the crank up to the 0 degree mark on the flywheel and then lined up the driver side camshaft. In another thread on this forum I saw someone talking about lining them up at the second line, (10 degrees...)

Another thing I thought was odd but didn't think to mention. (nice one.. lol) When I turn the ignition on everything seems to work correctly except for my turbo. The display on the dash (full digital) doesnt show the turbo spinning liek it is giving boost. When I unplug the fuse for the coil and the computer, the turbo indicator works correctly but then my tach and temp guages dont work. Since those green plugs are connected, would those plugs cause the turbo indicator to not function until the fuse is pulled for the computer? :confused: By what you have said and what I have seen with my friends car the plugs shouldn't be connected. If it starts a diagnostic sequence in the computer, it may shut those off but I'm not sure. Either way they are goign to be unhooked when I can get to the car again.

#20 DaveT

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 07:59 PM

When I redid the timing belts so they were aligned correctly I lined the crank up to the 0 degree mark on the flywheel and then lined up the driver side camshaft. In another thread on this forum I saw someone talking about lining them up at the second line, (10 degrees...)


This sound worng. About 1/2 a turn of the flywheel from the TDC -10 0 10 marks are 3 lines |||. The center one should line up with the pointer on the housing. The cam shaft hole should be lined up with the notch in the cover. Tension the first belt. Turn the engine w/ wrench 1 revolution, line up on the center mark. Set the 2nd timing pully to line up hole & notch. Tension 2nd belt. If it is correct, you can feel each cylender compression as you wrench the crankshaft. It should hit the compression every 90 degrees.

#21 MustyJusty

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 11:44 PM

I find myself thinking of the age old saying;
"A little gas, a little oil, a little spark from the coil.'
Since you have gas, and I assume oil;). Then it must be lack of spark at the right moment. Funny tho you claim that you may or may not have flooded it. Are you sure you got gas? what you have to do is eliminate one of the two. Here's my method.
You will need three people, one with a stopwatch. one to turn the ignition. Leave #1 spark plug in the motor, and take the wire off. Then the third person sticks a finger as far in the boot as he can. (I find pinky works best, and dont be afraid to use spit to lubricate.) Then with the other hand hold the spark plug, and have helper #2 turn over the motor. If the guy with the stopwatch can't start the stopwatch before before you slam into the underside of the hood it's a gas problem. If this doesnt work have the other 2 guys touch you and each other, try again. If the stopwatch still works after this then you have no spark.
Hope this helps.
Seriously tho eliminate the fuel first. Every shade tree mechanic I know has messed up on the first timing belt change.
Good luck!!

#22 SubySwack

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 12:05 AM

:lol: Thanks for some entertainment to lighten the mood... :lol:

The engine is getting plenty of fuel but after sitting for 2 years it probably isn't very usable fuel. I didn't use your method but I do know it has spark! Unplugged a wire from the spark plug and aimed it at a piece of bare metal... It has spark. :) I am towing my car here on a trailer in a few days. (big disappointment since I wanted to drive it here..) Then it will be a lot easier to work on since I will just have to walk out my front door.




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