46 replies to this topic

[superu]

So, I've gone through many-a-sleepless night thinking of how to better equip my outback-strut-lifted '95 legacy...

I know John will do me a dual range 5 spd from an EA '80's car, but i fear the spline differences in the front axles and am just not that interested in so much modding in my daily driver... I know I know, ForesterRanger LOVED his dual range forester, and its still kicking it hard on Oregon forest roads!!

But, I'd like to go with the 4.11 gearset of later-model year outbacks, and I like the AWD 5 spd, BUT we didn't get dual range AWD in the states..

BUT you cool kids down under did, y mi amigos en Sur America y America Central tiene los transmiciones tambien...

SO, I'm looking into how i can get a late 90's era dual range AWD from,an outback-like legacy ( I think they were Loyales down under, right?)

I also think you guys down under have aftermarket lower range gearsets you can put in these things too, right?!??

Is this possible, and how can I begin getting this together?

-Mark-
Now in Moab, UT
Just left Flagstaff, AZ

[Phizinza]

There are after market low range which just bolt in for $1500 or there abouts. Or with a tiny bit of modding you can put the EA82 1.59 to 1 low gears in.

How much are you willing to pay? That way if I find one I'll get it and strip it down to what you need for cheaper freight. I'd say you'd be looking at AROUND $200 freight and $200 - $400 for the box.
I need to go the the wreckers soon so I'll have a look if there are any there (can pick them up cheap at the right place).

What you would need is a pinionshaft, front diff with crown wheel to match pinion, center diff and rear casing and custom lever to enable low range.
You owuld also need to get someone, or do it yourself, to fit the pinion shaft and shims for the diff.
If you want the whole gearbox from a Forester (the one with the 4.11 ratio) and standard dual range that would cost probably $300 shipping and $600 - $800 for the box.

But if your going to the effort of putting a EA82 low range you may as well just build the gearbox with the minimum you need from the EJ D/R.

[zukiru]

why complicate it and make it cost more? just use the parts at hand.
axles are not very scary...

[Phizinza]

Well if you don't want AWD, then i guess its easy. But if you use an EA82 clutch you could build a box with EJ AWD EA82 D/R that will bolt into your EJ car with what ever EJ diff ratio and front splines you want.

[Numbchux]

only reason to run an EJ D/R trans is for the EJ clutch or if you'd rather just drop the big bucks on a complete trans and not crack it open.

or, take an EA D/R box, use a FT4WD output shaft, EJ 4.111 ring/pinion, EJ center diff, adapter plate, EA82 flywheel, XT6 clutch kit, and you'd be set. exactly what you're looking for, and using all USDM parts.

[discopotato03]

I don't know about USDM but in Australia our 1st gen Liberty's were available with DR 3.9 transmissions .
You run into trouble trying to use the 4.11 or 4.44 crown wheel and L lower low range gears . These crown wheels need to be modified to give clearance on the low low gears .
It's probably easier to run the DR 3.9 box and L low low's , but even then you have to modify the L's range shift fork because it doesn't have the right shape for the EJ type detent ball/spring system . The L's LR detent mechanism is in the top of the gearboxes extension (shift rod not cable ) .

Cheers A .

[Phizinza]

So the 4.11 is a trouble as well? I thought it was only the 4.44s that didn't go with the 1.59 to 1's..

BTW, the Forester D/R gearbox has a 1.44 to 1 low range. And I'm pretty sure it is a 4.11 diff.

[superu]

Sorry for the delayed reply and THANKS for all the good info...


Hmm, so it seems a bit more complicated than I thought..

This may be lengthy and I'm trying to wrap my head around all the options subys have been doing over the years and generations, so I'm going to try to articulate my understanding of what's around, so please bear with me on this....


I'm in the states and as i understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong
(because a LOT of you all know MUCH more than I do, although I'm getting more and more knolwdge through all of you everytime i log on)

, it goes something like this...

ea subys (motors and trannys) are first and second gen FWD/4WD (dual range in later first gen and in all second gen) subarus (like dl, gl wagons and brats (brumbys down under?) and loyales and leones) and had 1.59:1 low range gearing... These were 3.90:1 gearded final drive 4-5spd (5 speed dual range 3.90:1 came out in '89?) manuals and 4 spd automatics... there's a bunch of different stuff in there like push-button 4wd, then later full-time 4wd (the beginning of AWD) and different gearing in things like DXs and such later on...

ej cars (like mine) began the 2.2 liter fuel injected motor and were are full time AWD and came around with legacies in the early 90's with the new body styles (I think from 90 or 91?).... My 95 is the second generation of new body style of new generation subys, and is a 5spd 3.90:1 final drive...
Outbacks (in the states) started in 96 (with 3.90:1, 5 spd and 4.11:1 automatics (4EAT), but were dialed in in 97-99 and came with 4.11:1 final drive 5 spd gear boxes then...
In the states these were all single range 5 spd, 4.11:1 from 97 on...
As I understood it, Latin america and I thought australia and europe got dual range 5 spd 4.11:1 in their outbacks and imprezas...
Foresters came on the scene in 98 and have always had 4.11:1 5spd gearboxes (or 4EAT), but the later model turbos came with 4.44:1, 5 speed or 6 speed manual trannys...



So i thought i could get a dual range 4.11:1 geared 5 spd that would bolt into my 95 legacy (i know I'll need a 4.11 rear diff too) and i would maintain full-time AWD but add a lower gear through dual range not offered in north america..

So here is where my understanding may be wrong.....
I think the dual range AWD is more like 1.18:1 rather than the 1.59:1 low range of the EA dual range 4WD, BUT with the aftermarket lower range gears you can bolt in
(like from scorpion: http://scorpionsubaru.com/low.htm), then a dual range AWD would be better than 1.18:1 low range....

SO, I also know folks here in the states have put older-school AE dual range 4WD trannies in new gen EJ cars (like forester ranger's old forester, and another guy's OB in Montana, both done by Mudrat).. I know this takes an adapter plate to marry the EA tranny with the very slightly different EJ motor's bolt pattern....
AND the EA tranny's spline pattern is different from the EJ motor's spline pattern for the front axles...

SO this can be corrected for by using 93 impresa FWD inner CV axles (which go into the EA motor) married to my existing 95 legacy EJ outer CV splines (to go into my 95 front end)....


SO, my question is this:
is my understanding on Australian and Latin American dual range AWD correct, or are there different gearing issues?

I wanted to avoid so much modifying (like splicing front axles and adding an adaptor plate) and just bolt in a lower-gear-modified dual range AWD that would keep my performance clutch...
BUT, now I'm leaning more towards the AE dual range swap (like forester ranger's old forester), to get the more legit dual range functionality of true 4WD...

I'll try to be on the forum more to keep this dialogue going and see where I end up with this modifying stuff...

Thanks again,
-mark-

[Phizinza]

As a reply to your first half of that post.
And this is for the US as well as Australia.
EA81 4WD D/R boxes were 3.7 and 3.9 (to me it seems totally random which models get which ratio) with a 1.49 to 1 low range.
EA82 4WD D/R boxes were 3.7 and 3.9 (same as above) and came with 1.59 to 1 low range. Loyales did not come in D/R.
EA82t 4WD/FT4WD D/R boxes ran 3.7 diff and 1.19 to 1 low range.

For Australian EJ D/R boxes:
Liberty's (legacy's) from 89 to 97(?) gad 3.9 ratio with a 1.19 to 1 low range.
Outbacks ran the same low range, but not sure of diff ratio.
Foresters (not sure on year) came in 4.11 ratio with a 1.44 to 1 low range.

I have been told the 1.59 to 1 low range will not fit with a 4.11 or 4.44 diff (unless the crown wheel is machined).

For a easy and affective bolt in dual range gearbox for an EJ you probably want the Forester gearbox.


For the middle of your post:
You can buy the scorpion gears or easily modify the EA82 low range to fit in a Liberty gearbox, alitte more work and you can fit it in the Forester and outback boxes.

You can just get the inner joint cups from an EA car and put them on your axles I believe. A bit greasy, but saves buying new axles. The cup is just the part that holds the ball joint and slots onto the spline out of the gearbox.
Propshaft would also need work (longer I think).

For the last part:
Just buy a Forester Dual range from where ever... It really does sound like what you want. Its not the best, but its a no mod (except shifter linkages) setup. So many people are asking questions about gearbox mods after I done my Brumby (I really shouldn't of shared all that info) but really not very many are ready to do that kind of work and because they don't undertand what is involved they get carried away thinking its easy just because its doable I guess. Oh well. I've put info on this subject in so many posts now that the word it out for good and there are going to be a lot of confused people. Sorry about that

[WoodsWagon]

Most EDM EJ-powered subarus came with dual range AWD too. Legacy's, Imps, and forrestors all had DR/AWD EJ-bellhousing boxes in them. So it's not just a latinamerica/australia deal. One other thing I would look into is whether the JDM market had them. There is a regular trade in JDM engines and transmissions for honda's, and it probably wouldn't be that hard to convince an importer to throw in a few subie trannies into a container.

[Numbchux]

Most EDM EJ-powered subarus came with dual range AWD too. Legacy's, Imps, and forrestors all had DR/AWD EJ-bellhousing boxes in them. So it's not just a latinamerica/australia deal. One other thing I would look into is whether the JDM market had them. There is a regular trade in JDM engines and transmissions for honda's, and it probably wouldn't be that hard to convince an importer to throw in a few subie trannies into a container.

I looked into this this winter.....we had a MNSubaru club member who was living in Japan, and was regularly shipping over cool JDM stuff (mostly grills, wings, fog light covers and wheels). So I had him research EJ D/R trannies, and he came up completely empty handed......

[Phizinza]

New Zealand is a good place to get a EJ D/R from as well (they have kind laws and taxs on importing and exporting)

[kiwi subbie]

ive only evers seen 2 EJ D R legacys here. they arnt common here. been looking to get hold of one for ages :-\

[Phizinza]

ive only evers seen 2 EJ D R legacys here. they arnt common here. been looking to get hold of one for ages :-\

Oh... I would of thought you'd have plenty of imported ones..
Oh well, I'm sure theres plenty here in Australia willing to help (for a price, cos thats all that aussies are really into lol).

[WoodsWagon]

Shipping to the US from the Europeon Domestic Market (EDM) Where I know they're common would be cheaper than shipping from Australia.

But for NZ, Aus transmissions would be the cheapest.

[superu]

Thanks all for the great info. I've been away from civilization for MOST of the last month...

So I have an EA in my 95 legacy, and (e.g.) Loyales and GL wagons are EJ??

SO, to continue this dialogue...
I'm interested in the proposition of a DR AWD 4.11 geared tranny (to mimic a US 96-99 AWD with 4.11 gearing, rather than my '95 3.90 geared tranny... Thusfar it seems I'd probably want an australian forrester DR 5spd (for the 4.11 gearing), rear end (4.11 geared) I can get here easy enough..

So, it sounds like australia has plenty of them, but shipping would be the bugger... Would anyone have an appoximate cost for buying the tranny, then a freight cost for shipping to the states from down under?

I understand Europe has PLENTY as well, but purchasing from there may be more spendy, though shipping may be cheaper...
Any estimates on purchase of a DR AWD 5 spd, then freight cost??

While I'm interested in the dual range AWD, I am now very seriously considering the EJ 5 spd DR swap some others have done (to get dual range in a new gen suby, somewhat opposite of getting an EA 2.2 or 2.5 block into an older, second or first gen suby)

Thanks again, and many apopleze for such a lenghty delay in response...

-mw-

[Numbchux]

So I have an EA in my 95 legacy, and (e.g.) Loyales and GL wagons are EJ??

other way around

[superu]

Sooo, long story short (reviving a WAAAY old thread, from waay before I knew much about roos

I have a DR Ej 5MT now!! :headbang::headbang::headbang:

[rxleone]

ive only evers seen 2 EJ D R legacys here. they arnt common here. been looking to get hold of one for ages :-\

There's piles of them kicking around in Auckland, in the Pick-A-Part yards. I've even seen a couple in the one here in Christchurch, although they may have been push-button 4WD D/Rs.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Shipping to the US from the Europeon Domestic Market (EDM) Where I know they're common would be cheaper than shipping from Australia.

But for NZ, Aus transmissions would be the cheapest.

Well... Shipping from LADM (Latin American Domestic Merket) Will be even Cheaper, I drove some Dual Range Legacies, there are Few with Push Buttons, Recently I drove a 2009 Dual Range Forester here, and we're Extremly Near to USA, but the Problem is to Find the EJ Transmission alone = Mission:Impossible.

Here you Must buy the Entire Vehicle. More info ~► Here.

Kind Regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

... I have a DR Ej 5MT now!! :headbang::headbang::headbang:

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !!!

I'm Really Glad to Know That, please Update this thread with the Install info & Pics!

Kind Regards.

[wagonryan]

I am very interested in what you ended up doing to get it! I want the D/R but would prefer to spend a bit more on something that is somewhat of a direct swap than using the 20+ year old GL stuff and making it work.

let us know!

[el_freddo]

AWESOME news mate!

How long was it on the boat for?

And how long did it take you to install it?? I hope it's well worth the effort!! I know it will be.

What are the specs again? If it's got a dodgy low range the L series low range is well worth the effort!

Cheers

Bennie

[Gloyale]

There's piles of them kicking around in Auckland, in the Pick-A-Part yards. I've even seen a couple in the one here in Christchurch, although they may have been push-button 4WD D/Rs.

Even Better!!!

True 4wd

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I've seen many Push Button LADM (Latin American Domestic Market) Specs Dual Range EJ Subies in my Country, but...





...Why you call them: "True 4WD" ?

Kind Regards.