Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

long travel axle solution? mostly for the front


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 s'ko

s'ko

    RIP

  • Members
  • 1,722 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 08 February 2009 - 09:15 AM

I was talking with Subyrally the other day and bemoaning the lack of travel for the front and the high cost of splined stretch axles.

He then said that he remembers seeing a axles made on either Trucks! or Xtreme 4X4 on Spike TV that was made from two pieces of square DOM. The smaller piece was just bid enough to fit into the inside of the large tubing. The took the axle ends and welded them to the pieces of tubing. On the trail, it was the welds that broke.

For our applications, you could take a square piece of DOM, and weld the the DOJ sprocket to it. Then you can sprocket and the CV joint to it. Not sure which is easier.

Seems to me that there is a lot of chatter both ways. I am more concerned about getting the axles for the front. The rears are a different story.

Whatcha think?

Edited by s'ko, 09 February 2009 - 09:17 AM.


#2 bratman18

bratman18

    ADIDASubarus

  • Members
  • 3,525 posts
  • Jefferson, Maine

Posted 08 February 2009 - 09:23 AM

yeah know I have had these thoughts before. I think that as long as you could make sure everything was welded straight and true, that it would work great! I think it's definitely something that should be looked into and maybe tried by someone with the tools and know how!

#3 MysteriousXTC

MysteriousXTC

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 195 posts
  • High Point

Posted 08 February 2009 - 09:36 AM

Definitely have to get things pretty straight... After I got the rear end put in my solid axle wagon project, I fab'd up a square drive shaft and rode around like that, worked fine... Don't see why the same wouldn't be true for I.S. axles....

#4 bheinen74

bheinen74

    Banned

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • central Iowa

Posted 08 February 2009 - 10:27 AM

kinda like a shock absorber axle, if one could be made it would have been already done i would think. Hmmm any one with know how to try.?

#5 Wirebrush

Wirebrush

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts
  • Great Falls

Posted 08 February 2009 - 12:28 PM

I remember seeing an article or advertisement a few years ago for custom front axles for the front of IFS Toyota 4x4 trucks that would allow a huge amount of lift without dropping the center section. I thought they used a double CV joint on at least one end, but I can't be certain.

It's been my dream for years to build portal hubs for older Subarus like the ones on Humvees. Maybe someday if I ever get a big mill.

Edited by Wirebrush, 08 February 2009 - 12:33 PM.
add a thought


#6 monstaru

monstaru

    wow, relevance....

  • Members
  • 4,424 posts
  • OlyWa

Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:03 PM

i have been looking at this very closely and found a source of parts to build 2 axles for around 180 bucks.

splined shaft,u-joint style.you see, you can buy drive shaft parts cheap.and they are designed for high speed so why not transfer over to axles.

and i have never seen square DOM.DOM stands for drawn over mandrel.i do not think you can do that with square tube.i may be wrong,but i have been looking at and buying metal for the last couple of weeks.


anyways,with wide and offset u-joints high travel is a possibility.........think 930 porsche type....

you can buy the slip joints for about 43$ apiece,and the yoke ends and flange ends are about 8-12$ apiece.cutting the splined section off of the axle cups will be the trick,then weld the flange yokes to them.

a guy can do it at home rather cheap,and with u-joints there is a certain amount of forgiveness as to the trueness of the shaft.
cheers, brian

Edited by monstaru, 08 February 2009 - 01:06 PM.


#7 bratman18

bratman18

    ADIDASubarus

  • Members
  • 3,525 posts
  • Jefferson, Maine

Posted 08 February 2009 - 02:39 PM

So Brian, it sounds like you are leaning towards doing something like this. If you do, please post pics and build specifics! This obviously would solve so many problems!

#8 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,512 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 08 February 2009 - 06:54 PM

Here's a different though

treat the whole rear subframe like a solid axle. Air shock articulation of the whole rear end would be SWEET

#9 monstaru

monstaru

    wow, relevance....

  • Members
  • 4,424 posts
  • OlyWa

Posted 08 February 2009 - 07:44 PM

i actually have some drawings of that with a 4 link setup as well.

all a guy would do is make a transverse mount between the 2 knuckles and the diff making it "solid",then 4 link it and add air shocks.

when the mount is built since it will be static a guy could make the axles angles fairly high.

this one is a bit far off for me as i want to get this damn thing rolling and then work on this part of the project.......cheers, brain

Here's a different though

treat the whole rear subframe like a solid axle. Air shock articulation of the whole rear end would be SWEET



#10 bratman18

bratman18

    ADIDASubarus

  • Members
  • 3,525 posts
  • Jefferson, Maine

Posted 08 February 2009 - 07:48 PM

I want to see something done for the front!

#11 newsoobdude

newsoobdude

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 642 posts
  • helL A/ NorCal Foothills

Posted 08 February 2009 - 08:36 PM

I've met a few people who have done the square tube drive shaft and had no problems with them. Would be interesting for the fronts though. Put a u-joint on each end for extra crazy abilities and droop.

#12 TeamCF

TeamCF

    Rocker panel smasher

  • Members
  • 1,271 posts
  • Sandy, OR

Posted 08 February 2009 - 11:02 PM

This has proly been looked into before.
But as for the rear.
What about the 510 axles?
I had recently seen a whole rear suspension and drivetrain for a 510 leaning against the wall of a shed.
Not had a chance to fully look into it though.
They do use Soob LSD diffs in thier cars. So the diff to axle should not be too hard.
Just have to figure out the axle to wheel stub end.
They are universals with a slipjoint center section.
And they looked pretty beefy.
Just wonder how long they go.

Scroll down to the last pic on the page.
The top axle in the pic is what I'm talking about. they do look kinda shoert though.
http://www.rumblemot.../drvtrain.shtml

And a quote from that page that could be of interest to those that grab spare axles from the JY for thier wheelers:
"Now it's not a well known fact (well it wasn't to us at the time!), but you shouldn't run a back left half-shaft in the back right location, and visa versa. This is because the shafts torque up in a particular direction and when you change this they simply shatter/shear from fatigue. This may have been the cause of one of our failures (however we only had one spare with us so it had to go in - regardless of the side). "

Edited by TeamCF, 08 February 2009 - 11:06 PM.


#13 Wirebrush

Wirebrush

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts
  • Great Falls

Posted 08 February 2009 - 11:49 PM

Like these? http://http://www.ar...Buggy Axles.htm

The double cardan joint like this is what I was thinking though.http://http://www.ar...rive_shafts.htm

#14 s'ko

s'ko

    RIP

  • Members
  • 1,722 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 09 February 2009 - 09:30 AM

after reading some of the responses, I want to specify that this would be a design or idea for the front end. Monstaru, post up some info regarding the idea that you found for long travel that would be great.

The 4 link idea in the rear is great. This would eliminate the wheel travelling in an arch around the torsion bar mount.

The front wheels travel in an arch around the control arm mounts on the engine crossmember. High angle CVs like the ones from the Arizona sight are good for that application, but are cost prohibitive.

This long travel axles idea is a backyard temporary fix for more front suspension travel.
In order to truly get high travel and keep 4wd, we will need to use a longer control arms. Longer control arms means figuring out how to remount shocks or a strut and of course longer axles.

BW

#15 monstaru

monstaru

    wow, relevance....

  • Members
  • 4,424 posts
  • OlyWa

Posted 09 February 2009 - 11:24 AM

long travel in the front is easy too,much like was discussed in the other thread(long travel )...........

like you said s'ko,it is easier to just make longer control arms and put some type of mount in the stock strut mounting locations.for an air shock or coilover.

it would be easier to do this on a lifted rig, but probbaly able on a stock ride as well.

same axle idea.



as far s the 510 axles go,the inner stubs are attached to the flange mounting surface.meaning if you went that route you would need extra inners because those are generally the "fuse".those being the weak link i would not want to depend on finding them for very much longer in yards.

much like our beloved subies the datsuns have a cult following ,bigger even.so those parts are even worse than our rare parts.i still think building our own is the way to go.

i mean , it costs 200 or so to buy some new front halfshafts,why not build'em for the same approximate price?cheers, brain

#16 Subafreak

Subafreak

    User Awaiting Email Confirmation

  • Members
  • 863 posts
  • Central Village Ct.

Posted 09 February 2009 - 01:09 PM

Well we're a pretty crafty bunch so there are alot of cheap posibilities. Just think that every evolving generation of Subarus usually got longer and stronger axle shafts....well longer anyway :rolleyes:

Most notably the svx being one of the widest Subarus ever made and not being to hard to find parts for. Also the STI being about the same width. The Tribeca obviously is very wide with some beefy axels but not cheap or easy to come by yet.

Most of these axle upgrades will involve having to change the spindals but if we're talking about custom building control arms anyway, why not?

#17 TeamCF

TeamCF

    Rocker panel smasher

  • Members
  • 1,271 posts
  • Sandy, OR

Posted 09 February 2009 - 01:38 PM

Well we're a pretty crafty bunch so there are alot of cheap posibilities. Just think that every evolving generation of Subarus usually got longer and stronger axle shafts....well longer anyway :rolleyes:

Most notably the svx being one of the widest Subarus ever made and not being to hard to find parts for. Also the STI being about the same width. The Tribeca obviously is very wide with some beefy axels but not cheap or easy to come by yet.

Most of these axle upgrades will involve having to change the spindals but if we're talking about custom building control arms anyway, why not?


Was thinking about that the other day.
Also you have to think.
At least for someone like me where my EA81 is pretty lightweight. and underpowered.
The newer stuff "should" be way stronger.
As over the years the power went up and the so did the weight.
Needing more strength even in stock form.

Already been tinkering with the idea of Outback or WRX drivetrain in a EA81. (as far as rear diff, axles)
But thats the rear again.
But could front axles from a newer one fit?
It would take the front knuckles, brakes, ect.
Custom arms.
But would the axles fit on the trans......

#18 Subafreak

Subafreak

    User Awaiting Email Confirmation

  • Members
  • 863 posts
  • Central Village Ct.

Posted 09 February 2009 - 01:55 PM

Well if you run an EA82 turbo tranny you can use any Legacy, Imprezza, SVX, WRX, Forester front axle up untill the years they started doing the internal axle stub thing. But that gives you alot of options, all you need to do is use the matching spindal.

I would recomend against the STI stuff and most of us dont want to run 18" wheels are pay to replace a set of Brembo pads. The SVX brakes will fit a 15" wheel if you find the right one and will stop like hell.

Also the SVX spindals use a ball joint desing where the shaft bolts through the spindal and the ball joint bolts to the control arm with 3 bolts, making it easy to mount them to a custom control arm. And with the wider front track you can use the bolt on camber adjustable EJ style struts with a little custom upper strut mounting plates.

#19 Scott in Bellingham

Scott in Bellingham

    Lets go wheelin!!

  • Members
  • 3,636 posts
  • Bellingham

Posted 09 February 2009 - 02:46 PM

But would the axles fit on the trans......


FWD Impreza will slip right on a EA regular dualrange forgot what year,

#20 bratman18

bratman18

    ADIDASubarus

  • Members
  • 3,525 posts
  • Jefferson, Maine

Posted 09 February 2009 - 03:05 PM

FWD Impreza will slip right on a EA regular dualrange forgot what year,


Ok so what control arm and knuckle set up would you have to run in order to use the FWD Impreza axles?

#21 s'ko

s'ko

    RIP

  • Members
  • 1,722 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 09 February 2009 - 05:05 PM

FWD Impreza will slip right on a EA regular dualrange forgot what year,


Ok so what control arm and knuckle set up would you have to run in order to use the FWD Impreza axles?


That's what I have in the front of my BRAT.

I used XT6 hubs on the front and an EA82 crossmember and control arms. (mostly b/c I wanted the power steering) I am sure that you could use EJ hubs as well. The fronts will need to have the control arms lengthen so that you don't get camber like this
\--/

IF you go wheeling, make sure that you keep some spare axles around b/c the fwd 23 spline axles are not stocked at your local parts store. They are special order items.

BW

#22 bratman18

bratman18

    ADIDASubarus

  • Members
  • 3,525 posts
  • Jefferson, Maine

Posted 09 February 2009 - 05:14 PM

My plan is to do what jbbvw did, and use EA82 control arms, knuckles, axles, and lengthened radius rods and tie rods. That should help a lot with the camber issue. And I can get new EA82 axles from the local NAPA and so far they have been very strong.

#23 TeamCF

TeamCF

    Rocker panel smasher

  • Members
  • 1,271 posts
  • Sandy, OR

Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:08 PM

Different animals altogether.
But as a big part of this thread has to do with pushing CV angles to thier limits.... http://www.killeratv...Biggest_ATV.htm

Check out some of the rediculous CV angles on those. :eek:
There is even one with Yota solid axles on it.
Rediculous. :)

(don't ask me how I ran across that site saw a pic of the front of one and it led me there)

#24 Subafreak

Subafreak

    User Awaiting Email Confirmation

  • Members
  • 863 posts
  • Central Village Ct.

Posted 09 February 2009 - 11:10 PM

What the????? Wow! That is just......Wow! I dont even know what to think of that.:confused:

#25 monstaru

monstaru

    wow, relevance....

  • Members
  • 4,424 posts
  • OlyWa

Posted 10 February 2009 - 09:14 PM

what if a guy put a ball joint in the strut mount area?cheers, brian




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users